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Thread: Teen shot to death during home invasion

  1. #191
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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What percentage is prevented by prohibition?

    But that's the method that is currently not working.

    But there is no way to keep people from getting the drugs. Therefore they will never be unable to use them. It's a noble goal, but just impossible to achieve.
    Asking me for links as though you care about a quality discussion. That's funny.

    I'll tell you what, if you ask me in a thread about drug control instead of home invasion before you start in with the trolling, I'll be happy to give you those numbers.

    Until then I'm perfectly content with combating illegal drug use by enabling lawful gun owners to kill drug users on site when they brake into their homes.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-03-09 at 04:57 PM.

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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Combating drugs is like erecting a dam. The point is not to stop the water, but to control it.

    Tucker is basically claiming that the dam has failed because it doesn't hold 100% of the water back, and we should therefore demolish the dam.

    If anything, we simply need a better dam.
    Precisely, hence my comment on "stepping up our game" - or in otherwords, making a stronger, better damn.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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  3. #193
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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Until then I'm perfectly content with combating illegal drug use by enabling lawful gun owners to kill drug users on site when they brake into their homes.
    Somehow I doubt Tucker would have a huge difference in opinion about this whether drugs were or were not illegal.

    I know I don't.

    I fully respect the mans right to do anything he felt was needed to keep his family safe with someone illegally entering his home at night; whether he was on legal drugs, illegal drugs, or nothing at all.

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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    Not a war worth fighting? Do you have any idea what drugs do to people? Do you have any idea why all these Class A's and B's are illegalized in more or less every nation on this planet?
    I do have a general idea, and I'd say for many its not that much different than what Alcohol can do to people when abused. The one giant difference is the legal reprucussions that are attached to drugs rather than Alcohol, but that is not a symptom of the drugs but a symptom of the government and as such can't be used as a portion of judging them. Not to mention their inate illegal nature causes numerous issues when comparing them to Alcohol that could be argued would be removed if they were legalized.

    Now me personally, I'm kind of in between the "no legalizatoin" and "legalize all" crowd. I think that some of the more severely hallucinegetic (I so spelled that wrong) and/or EXTREMELY physically damaging ones could remain illegal, but I think that there are some, such as marijuana, that have absolutely no reason to be illegal if we're going to allow things like alcohol on the market.

  5. #195
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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Actually, the war on drugs is counter-productive. right now, the only people who deal drugs must break the law to do so. If we legalized and regulated drugs, as we do with liqour, it will actually lead to a decrease in underage usage.
    No it wouldnt, you have no evidence of this, and by restricting drugs for the underaged your simply quadroupeling the demand for drugs for the drug cartels to give to the underaged. What difference does it make, what are you stopping? Now what you have done is made it easier for people to access drugs and easier for the underaged to obtain them illegally (since we have now abolished the war on drugs). Infact, if we did legalize drugs, we'll still be funding the war on drugs. Legalization wont stop the cartels, it will just make them go out and get a better, cheaper yield. We'll be fighting the same war and using the same resources- your going in circles.

    Having strict penalties for underage sale of drugs while being permissive for sales towards those in the majority will make it so that those who distribute drugs will be less likely to risk their livelihood in order to make a single sale, when there are plenty of people who would be willing to purchase their wares without it placing a risk on their livelihood.
    Rubbish. Are you unaware that if the government legalized drugs, your gonna have all the dealers running off trying to obtain a better, higher yield then what the government is achieving by adding cheap ****ty substances to undercut government prices and run a greater health risk to those who take it?

    Right now, there exists no impetus that prevents any sale of drugs to minors. Legally speaking, it is just as "wrong" to sell drugs to a 30 year old as it is to sell drugs to a 13 year old. Either way, the person takes the same risks for the same rewards (monetary).
    Age group is irrelevant in drug use as far as im concerned. Its all outlawed, and hopefully it shall remain. Its no better for a 50 year old to take it then it is a 12 year old.

    But if a sale to a 30 year old was risk free while a sale to a 13 year old carried stiff penalties, they would not risk their freedom and livelihood over minimal benefit.
    You honestly think thats how dealers think?

    Again, that's an emotional argument. The 32 year old has already decided to destroy her life. Instead of spending the money on prohibition and such, spend a 1/4 of it on programs that have a chance to help this person such as rehabilitation treatments and education.
    ...by outlawing drugs but decriminilizing drug users (and instead look it at as a health issue like we do in Britain. We dont stick them in prisons like you do in America). They have to go to rehab centres.

    What the majority of the money goes towards is fighting against the sale of drugs. What it should be going towards is helping those who are affected and trying to keep young people off of drugs. Legalization would be a smart step in decreasing youth drug use as well as well as freeing up money to be used in assisting those who are already addicted.
    Doesnt change anything for god sakes. Most people on drugs are so deep they dont want to get better. What use is it legalizing drugs yet discouraging there use and offering rehab programmes? We're simply running in circles and wasting our money because we are funding rehab programmes while at the same time being the cause of there being there.

    Actually doing things that have a chance of succeeding instead of wasting more money on a failed program is illogical?!?!??! Please, explain.
    Tuck, your in fantasy land mate.
    Last edited by kaya'08; 08-03-09 at 05:27 PM.
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  6. #196
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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I do have a general idea, and I'd say for many its not that much different than what Alcohol can do to people when abused. The one giant difference is the legal reprucussions that are attached to drugs rather than Alcohol, but that is not a symptom of the drugs but a symptom of the government and as such can't be used as a portion of judging them. Not to mention their inate illegal nature causes numerous issues when comparing them to Alcohol that could be argued would be removed if they were legalized.
    I believe some drugs should be legalized, for example, the majority of class-c drugs (obviously class-c varies from country to country, recently the UK put weed to class-B).

    Now me personally, I'm kind of in between the "no legalizatoin" and "legalize all" crowd. I think that some of the more severely hallucinegetic (I so spelled that wrong) and/or EXTREMELY physically damaging ones could remain illegal, but I think that there are some, such as marijuana, that have absolutely no reason to be illegal if we're going to allow things like alcohol on the market.
    Exactly.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Somehow I doubt Tucker would have a huge difference in opinion about this whether drugs were or were not illegal.

    I know I don't.

    I fully respect the mans right to do anything he felt was needed to keep his family safe with someone illegally entering his home at night; whether he was on legal drugs, illegal drugs, or nothing at all.
    At the very least, I hope the next time a group of teens decide to get one of their own high, they escort their "friend" home to make sure he doesn't get killed.

    But then I suppose if they cared about their "friend" they wouldn't have gotten him high on shrumes to begin with.

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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    At the very least, I hope the next time a group of teens decide to get one of their own high, they escort their "friend" home to make sure he doesn't get killed.

    But then I suppose if they cared about their "friend" they wouldn't have gotten him high on shrumes to begin with.
    Absolutely. It reminds me of a story of a co-worker once told me where in a drunken stupor he ended up going into his neighbor down the streets house and passing out on their couch. Thankfully for him the neighbor knew and recognized him...and found him in the morning.

    I can only imagine what a similar situation would've ended with if it was one of my friends from college who my roommates actually tasered and held down because he started raging out and swinging at different things in the house, including people, instead of a guy just wanting a couch to crash.

    Its why, no matter what you're doing, its usually better to do it with at least one person there with a sober mind to make sure everyone gets to where they need to be safetly.

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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    No it wouldnt, you have no evidence of this, and by restricting drugs for the underaged your simply quadroupeling the demand for drugs for the drug cartels to give to the underaged. What difference does it make, what are you stopping? Now what you have done is made it easier for people to access drugs and no less harder or easier for the underaged to obtain them illegally.
    By legalizing it, you remove the cartels from the equation. Just like ending prohibition removed the mafia from teh alcohol equation.


    Rubbish. Are you unaware that if the government legalized drugs, your gonna have all the dealers running off trying to obtain a better, higher yield then what the government is achieving by adding cheap ****ty substances to undercut government prices and run a greater risk of health to those who take it.
    You got that backwards. Prohibition being repealed (aka the evidence) suggests the exact opposite will happen.


    Age group is irrelevant in drug use as far as im concerned. Its all outlawed, and hopefully it shall remain.
    Why? You say it's the logical argument, so present one. Thus far you have relied on "Drugs are bad. Banning drugs acknowledges they are bad. therefore banning drugs is good" without actually supporting the efficacy of these bans for reducing drug use.

    It's just an emotional appeal devoid of logic.

    I'm arguing for using the resources effectively, not throwing money at a failed program.

    Why is that met with resistance?

    Because people think that legalization = saying drugs are "good".


    You honestly think thats how dealers think?
    Legalizing drugs will remove the criminal element from the equation. And I have discussed this with a former heroin dealer before.


    That is exactly how they think.


    ...by outlawing drugs but decriminilizing drug users (and instead look it at as a health issue like we do in Britain. We dont stick them in prisons like you do in America). They have to go to rehab centres.
    That's preferable to the US methods.



    Doesnt change anything for god sakes. Most people on drugs are so deep they dont want to get better. What use is it legalizing drugs yet discouraging there use and offering rehab programmes? We're simply running in circles and wasting our money because we are funding rehab programmes while at the same time being the cause of there being there.
    As a person who has personally worked with a number of people during their worst stages of addiction, the exact opposite is true. Most really do want to get better, but have difficulty doing so because it is so difficult.

    Rehab programs won't become any less effective because of increased funding and less funding towards the legal prohibition.

    Drug use will not increase because of legalization. That fear is allayed by the prohibition statistics.

    Tuck, your in fantasy land mate.
    Unfortunately, I am living in the harsh reality.

    I have more experience with the actual perils of addiction than most people ever will.

    I have personally done more in my life to help people overcome addiction than most people ever will.

    I don't pay lip service to fighting addiction, I've actually put forth my own sweat and tears.

    I've walked into a crack house and carried someone out of it and taken them straight to rehab. I've been to funerals and I've had interventions.

    My opinions are actually based on what can potentially work, not on what I would really really like to see happen.

    If anyone knows the devastating affects of drugs it's me, yet I argue against prohibition even though I personally despise most drugs not because I want to see them legal, but because I want to see REAL effective measures instituted, not the bull**** lip service of the so-called "war on drugs".

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    Re: Teen shot to death during home invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    I believe some drugs should be legalized, for example, the majority of class-c drugs (obviously class-c varies from country to country, recently the UK put weed to class-B).
    Which is freaking retarded.

    People can go jail for a few years just for getting high or being caught with it what kind of BS law is that?
    We all know it is pandering to the old stupid people of this country who are conservative and see drugs as just all evil and in one class.


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