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Thread: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I think a ten year old Prius will have less negative impact on the economy than a ten year old Hummer, and that's precisely what this program is designed for. By my calculations, the program has already saved 45,000,000 gallons of gas per year, based on annual driving of 10,000 miles and a 1/3 increase on mileage over the clunkers that are being turned in. That, plus the stimulus to the economy and the much-needed income for the auto industry, pretty much convinces me this was a good and timely idea.
    It hasn't saved any gas. Now that these folks are driving cars that get huge gas mileage, they're going to be driving more. They traded in a vehicle that burned 15 gallons a week going back and forth to work and that's all it was used for. Now that same person, what with his 30 mpg car is going to be burning 15 gallon, plus, a week because of the illusion of all the money that he is saving with his Obama-mobile.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Economic stimulus isn't a tricky thing. Any given economy is based on one thing: cash flow. The more cash flow there is, the healthier an economy is. The government can't create cash flow.
    Well, I think you're wrong there, considering cash flow starts at the Treasury print shop.

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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It hasn't saved any gas. Now that these folks are driving cars that get huge gas mileage, they're going to be driving more. They traded in a vehicle that burned 15 gallons a week going back and forth to work and that's all it was used for. Now that same person, what with his 30 mpg car is going to be burning 15 gallon, plus, a week because of the illusion of all the money that he is saving with his Obama-mobile.
    You can't assume that. Who sits around saying "where else can we drive?", just because they are saving money on gas?

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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I think a ten year old Prius will have less negative impact on the economy than a ten year old Hummer, and that's precisely what this program is designed for. By my calculations, the program has already saved 45,000,000 gallons of gas per year, based on annual driving of 10,000 miles and a 1/3 increase on mileage over the clunkers that are being turned in. That, plus the stimulus to the economy and the much-needed income for the auto industry, pretty much convinces me this was a good and timely idea.
    The problem is that you have to break it down by individual and when you do buying a newish prius is less efficient than keeping your old vehicle.

    You have to calculate payment interest, maintenance, and how long the person will keep the car. The last one indicates that someone won't keep any longer than 2 years on average. It is a waste then.
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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Well, I think you're wrong there, considering cash flow starts at the Treasury print shop.
    LMAO...obviously, you don't have the first clue about economics.


    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    You can't assume that. Who sits around saying "where else can we drive?", just because they are saving money on gas?
    I can't believe you actually asked yourself that question. What kind of work do you do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Economic stimulus isn't a tricky thing. Any given economy is based on one thing: cash flow. The more cash flow there is, the healthier an economy is. The government can't create cash flow.
    I disagree. A strong government spending money on infrastructure and capital generating industries is probably the best way to generate cash flow there is. I think it's too simple to say, "Cash flow is the answer", especially since it's possible for vast quantities of cash to flow in the corporate world, on superflous products that don't necessarily increase the standard of living.

    GDP isn't exactly an accurate method of determining the health of an economy, you see, as a vast majority of wealth can be generated in a country, but very little of that wealth be held in the hands of that countrie's citizens, even though the economy might be considered to be doing good.

    But like I said, The government can help do more than just generate cash flow. It can invest wisely without following every new trend that comes up and that creates bubble markets in corporate america. It can hold credit at reasonable interest rates much better than private banks, for the simple reason that the government is more concerned about the welfare of it's infrastructure than turning a profit. And if it doesn't turn a profit? Well, it's important to stay out of debt, but debt isn't necessarily a bad thing when you have good schools, good transit systems, good healthcare...etc.
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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by DasTränegras View Post
    I disagree. A strong government spending money on infrastructure and capital generating industries is probably the best way to generate cash flow there is. I think it's too simple to say, "Cash flow is the answer", especially since it's possible for vast quantities of cash to flow in the corporate world, on superflous products that don't necessarily increase the standard of living.

    GDP isn't exactly an accurate method of determining the health of an economy, you see, as a vast majority of wealth can be generated in a country, but very little of that wealth be held in the hands of that countrie's citizens, even though the economy might be considered to be doing good.

    But like I said, The government can help do more than just generate cash flow. It can invest wisely without following every new trend that comes up and that creates bubble markets in corporate america. It can hold credit at reasonable interest rates much better than private banks, for the simple reason that the government is more concerned about the welfare of it's infrastructure than turning a profit. And if it doesn't turn a profit? Well, it's important to stay out of debt, but debt isn't necessarily a bad thing when you have good schools, good transit systems, good healthcare...etc.
    I'll aquiesce, a little, and agree that the government can create some of the cash flow that an economy needs to thrive, however, the government can't create it all. When it does, it's only recycling the money; taking it from the tax payer, just to turn around and give it back to the tax payer. That would be the same as me paying you to work for me, then charging you a 20% fee for giving you a job, then using that money, along with my corporate revenue to pay your salary.

    Only the private sector can create jobs and wealth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Because a false market has been created.

    A viable economy is built upon the truth of producer supply vs. consumer demand. When the government essentially "subsidizes" a market, it creates a false market grounded in decieving the market by creating scenarios that would not otherwise exist.

    There is supposed to be some Darwinism regarding a free market. The bad ideas/businesses die, or are defeated by the better ideas/buisnesses. Government interfering and propping up failing industries, delays or prohibits true stimulus, which comes from the root truths of the basics of supply/demand economics.
    Win win win...

    The reason why the free market works is because things that don't belong die. Crash and Burn. Fall off the cliff. you name it...


    What we here are seeing in the US is that those companies that failed don't die off.

    then you complain its the 'free markets mess' when yhou don't let the free market clean itself up.

    Way to go crackpots.

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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    If 225,000 new cars are sold, how is the economy not helped?



    It's really simple. Let me break it down for you....



    Repair shops suffer

    Gas statios suffer

    Tax payers paying for others cars suffer.



    It is a scheme that will only harm us in the future...



    And I am pissed. My business is down 5% due to the economy. Why wont Obama offer people $4500 to use my services?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Govt to suspend Cash for Clunkers program

    Quote Originally Posted by DasTränegras View Post
    I disagree. A strong government spending money on infrastructure and capital generating industries is probably the best way to generate cash flow there is. I think it's too simple to say, "Cash flow is the answer", especially since it's possible for vast quantities of cash to flow in the corporate world, on superflous products that don't necessarily increase the standard of living.

    GDP isn't exactly an accurate method of determining the health of an economy, you see, as a vast majority of wealth can be generated in a country, but very little of that wealth be held in the hands of that countrie's citizens, even though the economy might be considered to be doing good.

    But like I said, The government can help do more than just generate cash flow. It can invest wisely without following every new trend that comes up and that creates bubble markets in corporate america. It can hold credit at reasonable interest rates much better than private banks, for the simple reason that the government is more concerned about the welfare of it's infrastructure than turning a profit. And if it doesn't turn a profit? Well, it's important to stay out of debt, but debt isn't necessarily a bad thing when you have good schools, good transit systems, good healthcare...etc.
    Cash for clunkers is not an infrastructure program. Like apstd said, you take tax payer money, and then give tax payer a refund on purchasing a car. While it might benefit the lower eschelons of the progressive tax brackets, the net benefit is nil.

    I have yet to see the person on this debate site, be so anti-government, so libertarian, that they believe infrastructure spending by the federal government is a waste of time and money. Most people support infrastructure spending, regardless of political affiliation. Most people see the benefit of infrastructure spending. The government creating a cash for clunkers program, or interveneing in the health insurance market as it plans to do, is not infrastructure spending, but rather market interference/control which alot of people believe is not the role of government or should be severely limited in its scope.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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