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Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

Sammyo

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CNN.com

Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California - CNN.com


OAKLAND, California (CNN) -- Richard Lee greets students, shopkeepers and tourists as he rolls his wheelchair down Broadway at the speed of a brisk jog, hailing them with, "Hi. How ya doin'?"


Marijuana activist Richard Lee is a local celebrity in the small district of Oakland, California, called Oaksterdam.
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In this nine-block district of Oakland, California, called Oaksterdam, Lee is a celebrity.

Oaksterdam is Lee's brainchild, a small pocket of urban renewal built on a thriving trade in medical marijuana. The district's name comes from a marriage of Oakland and Amsterdam, a city in the Netherlands renowned for its easy attitude toward sex and drugs.

Lee is the founder of Oaksterdam University, which he describes as a trade school that specializes in all things marijuana: how to grow it, how to market it, how to consume it. The school, which has a curriculum, classes and teachers, claims 3,500 graduates.

Lee also owns a medical marijuana dispensary, a coffee house, a large indoor marijuana plantation, and a museum/store devoted to the cause of legalizing marijuana.

"I really see this as following the history of alcohol. The way prohibition was repealed there," Lee says, adding that he believes he is close to achieving his mission.

Lee is organizing a petition drive to place a marijuana legalization measure on the ballot in 2010, and he thinks the measure stands a good chance of being approved by voters.


America's High

Can we afford to make pot legal? Can we afford not to? The case for and against legalized pot, an AC 360 special.
Friday 10 p.m.

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A recent California Field Poll showed that more than half the people in the state, where marijuana for medical use was approved more than a decade ago, would approve of decriminalizing pot.

The state's faltering economy is one reason why. If legalized, marijuana could become California's No. 1 cash crop. It could bring in an estimated $1 billion a year in state taxes.

Democratic State Assemblyman Tom Ammiano is spearheading a cannabis legalization bill in the California Assembly. He believes the state's need to increase tax revenues will work in his bill's favor.

"I think it's a seductive part of the equation," he says.

Ammiano says there are a number of ways legalized pot could be marketed, "It could be a Walgreens, it could be a hospital, a medical marijuana facility, whatever could be convenient. Adequate enforcement of the rules. Nobody under 21. No driving under the influence."

Even California's Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, says legalizing marijuana deserves serious consideration.

"I think we ought to study very carefully what other countries are doing that have legalized marijuana," Schwarzenegger says.

But Ammiano says selling a legalized marijuana bill to his fellow legislators remains a delicate matter.

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"If we held the vote in the hallway, we'd have it done," Ammiano says. "But people are necessarily cautious. They are up for re-election."

And that is why Lee believes voters will approve a marijuana initiative long before the state Assembly acts. Sitting under grow lights in a warehouse filled with hundreds of marijuana plants, Lee sums it up this way: "For some people cannabis is like a religion. As passionate as some people are about their religions and freedom to think what they want and to worship as they want."

But all of that is baloney to Paul Chabot. He is president of the Coalition for a Drug Free California. He says voters should not be fooled by promises of big bucks flowing to the state from marijuana taxes.

"It's their way of sort of desensitizing our communities, our state and our nation to a drug problem that we clearly need to put our foot down on, and say, 'No more. Enough is enough.' "

Chabot points out that California's medical marijuana law has been poorly regulated, and he expects more of the same if marijuana becomes legalized for everyone.

But a substantial number of Californians seem to believe that no amount of enforcement is going to make pot go away -- and that it's time for the state to begin taking a cut of the action.
 
I mean, why not? If we have legal alcohol and cigarettes, and the gov't makes tax dollars from those "vice products," why not marijuana? Like any drug, it can be used or abused, but millions of people use it every day and function as responsible, decent americans. There's no need to stay in the dark ages, here.
 
I mean, why not? If we have legal alcohol and cigarettes, and the gov't makes tax dollars from those "vice products," why not marijuana? Like any drug, it can be used or abused, but millions of people use it every day and function as responsible, decent americans. There's no need to stay in the dark ages, here.

Couldn't agree more. As a responsible toker myself,I think it's finally time to do the right thing!
 
Well, we can't put all the pot smokers in jail, and if they're going to smoke, why not make it legal and tax it. The drug would be cheaper, better regulated, and a source of revenue for the state. Duh.
 
I don't like illegal drugs, however, I am finally of the opinion that it would be a good thing to legalize drugs, all drugs, in and only in, the State of California.
 
Well, we can't put all the pot smokers in jail, and if they're going to smoke, why not make it legal and tax it. The drug would be cheaper, better regulated, and a source of revenue for the state. Duh.

Not only that, but the blow to the drug cartels would be a major reason on it's own.
 
I don't like illegal drugs, however, I am finally of the opinion that it would be a good thing to legalize drugs, all drugs, in and only in, the State of California.

I don't think that could work very efficently. Either we all go legal or none. We'd have to have drug agents then patrolling Cali's border for any traffickers for one thing. That's then when the Feds have to come in and that just sounds like a huge mess.
 
I don't think that could work very efficently. Either we all go legal or none. We'd have to have drug agents then patrolling Cali's border for any traffickers for one thing. That's then when the Feds have to come in and that just sounds like a huge mess.

Well, it makes sense to let one state try it out. Then, if it works the anti-drug folks wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
 
Legal taxable pot won't work.

Anyone can grow it and smoke it themselves, maybe sell it cheaper than gov't taxed dope.

This is just a ploy to get it legalized. It's as simple as that.
 
Legal taxable pot won't work.

Anyone can grow it and smoke it themselves, maybe sell it cheaper than gov't taxed dope.

This is just a ploy to get it legalized. It's as simple as that.


By that logic people would never go out to eat at restaurants. People can roll their own cigarettes for about a penny a smoke, but instead they buy cigs by the pack (not the more economical carton) and pay about 30 cents a smoke, 30 times what it would be if they rolled their own. Sorry, your argument fails bigtime. As to your assertion, about just wanting to get pot legalized, it's bald and not demonstrated with any argument, poor or otherwise.
 
Legal taxable pot won't work.

Anyone can grow it and smoke it themselves, maybe sell it cheaper than gov't taxed dope.

This is just a ploy to get it legalized. It's as simple as that.

Legalized pot would (at least in part) most likely look a lot like the tobacco industry
 
Legalized pot would (at least in part) most likely look a lot like the tobacco industry

I think so. Of course, it may have some elements of the alcohol industry, too. The bucks would be in the branding, imo. Good brands would have different specialized mixtures with different types of highs/effects/smoking properties/whatever. Some would be in pill or butter form, some in various other forms for various smoking paraphernalia. That sort of thing. I think it'd thrive, just like the tobacco or alcohol industry and provide taxable income out the wazoo.
 
Legal taxable pot won't work.

Anyone can grow it and smoke it themselves, maybe sell it cheaper than gov't taxed dope.

This is just a ploy to get it legalized. It's as simple as that.


Yes it is a ploy to get it legalized.. and??

As far as anyone can grow and smoke it themselves, you are quite correct, just as anyone can make their own alcohol and drink it themselves as well.

Beer is very inexpensive and easy to make, and the turnover time between start to finish is a fraction of the time it would take marijuana. Do some people still brew it, most certainly (myself included). There are still plenty of people who would rather not spend the time and effort to make it themselves, and tax revenue form beer sales is doing just fine in spite of how easy it is to make beer.

If the lost revenue from people growing pot is of concern, the solution is simple, require an annual licensing fee in order to be able to cultivate it, most hobby growers would gladly pay the fee.

To preempt the counterpoint of enforcement of the licensing being an issue, yes there would be those who would skirt this, much as there are those who continue to distill moonshine. Impose stiff penalties on unlicensed cultivation (tax evasion essentially), put strict requirements on outdoor cultivation (especially to prohibit minors from being able to simply hop a fence and snip a bud from someones crop), and make it illegal to sell outside of a legal distribution facility (whatever form that may take).

Between the costs of setting up a greenhouse, a secure outdoor grow, or the lighting and electricity costs of setting up an indoor grow, and the licensing fee the vast majority of smokers will find it MUCH easier to just go to their local smoke shop and purchase a bit to smoke than to grow it themselves. Those who do grow it themselves will do so because it is a labor of love, and still be taxed accordingly.
 
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Brilliant, Marduc!!! :)
 
Beer is very inexpensive and easy to make, and the turnover time between start to finish is a fraction of the time it would take marijuana. Do some people still brew it, most certainly (myself included).

Been brewing my own for 16 years, and distilling for 3 years. :rofl

Look. I could set up my own grow, outside the law just like they do now. After legalization, I'm home free. I can sell the crap out of it, undercut gov't taxed dope and make a mint. Tax free.

Today's green dope THC level is through the roof, couple hits off a joint is all it takes. People pay top dollar for that sh*t. Doesn't take much to make a pile of money.

Screw licenses. Who needs licenses, it's legal!
 
A recent California Field Poll showed that more than half the people in the state, where marijuana for medical use was approved more than a decade ago, would approve of decriminalizing pot.

Hmm .. one more reason to want to visit California then.
 
Been brewing my own for 16 years, and distilling for 3 years. :rofl

Look. I could set up my own grow, outside the law just like they do now. After legalization, I'm home free. I can sell the crap out of it, undercut gov't taxed dope and make a mint. Tax free.

Today's green dope THC level is through the roof, couple hits off a joint is all it takes. People pay top dollar for that sh*t. Doesn't take much to make a pile of money.

Screw licenses. Who needs licenses, it's legal!

Legally distributed MJ would be the best genetics available, and at a lower cost than the current black market, despite taxation (otherwise there would still be a viable black market). You will find your profit margin significantly undercut.

If you set up your unlicensed grow, and undercut the taxed regulated crop, then you would be breaking the law, it would not be legal.

But as I said, there would be exceptions, apparently you would be one of those. So what is stopping you from growing and selling it now aside from it being illegal, since you already have hinted that you would not care about the legalities of growing and selling it post-regulation?
 
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But as I said, there would be exceptions, apparently you would be one of those. So what is stopping you from growing and selling it now aside from it being illegal, since you already have hinted that you would not care about the legalities of growing and selling it post-regulation?

That's my point. Anyone with a script can grow green dope right now in CA. Doesn't take much to package and make a few sales to make extra cash, tax free. What's a buyer going to do? Ask for your business license? You see, it doesn't take much to grow high quality green dope and undercut the gov't taxed dope. The gov't will not sell it for free? Right? Doesn't take much to recover your operating costs until a profit is made. Doesn't take much to grow a few plants in your backyard and make an enormous profit.

Damn, I think I might go into farming. :rofl
 
The federal government will never allow the absolute legalization of pot. It may allow (depending on the President) medical marijuana, but it won't let it go completely.


And you know this how?
 
That's my point. Anyone with a script can grow green dope right now in CA. Doesn't take much to package and make a few sales to make extra cash, tax free. What's a buyer going to do? Ask for your business license? You see, it doesn't take much to grow high quality green dope and undercut the gov't taxed dope. The gov't will not sell it for free? Right? Doesn't take much to recover your operating costs until a profit is made. Doesn't take much to grow a few plants in your backyard and make an enormous profit.

Damn, I think I might go into farming. :rofl

You mean exactly like growing veggies in your back yard garden, and eating what you grow. Look, you've yet to overcome the "restaurant analogy" that demonstrates that people will pay for a quality product that is convenient. Where there's a demand, there's a supply. Industry will produce a variety of products with a variety of effects that come from blending different strains. You're not going to get that from one or two plants in your basement that are susceptible to bugs, disease, mold and various other natural "enemies". The difference is going to be like the difference between Sam Adams and bathtub beer. Sure, you can make bathtub beer if you've the time and energy, or you can go pick up a six-pack with your burgers and buns, when it's time for a cookout.

Regardless, as i said, where there's a demand, there's a supply. The supply is going to come from one of three basic channels. Free market, black market, and gov't controlled (like tobacco and liquor). Two of those options allow for tax dollars to go to the state. The other doesn't, but rather COSTS tax dollars in regulation and control that doesn't even work. The choice seems rather simple to me.
 
And you know this how?

The government rarely gives up power once it's seized it. History is full of the abuses and natural paths of government. I know this because I pay attention to the world around me.
 
The government rarely gives up power once it's seized it.

So you admit that it does happen. That's good. We're making progress. You've heard of the 21st amendment, i gather?


History is full of the abuses and natural paths of government.

Indeed. It's a lesson we really need to learn and do something about. Unfortunately, those who get into power soon forget that power corrupts, and so the new boss takes on the mantle and mannerisms of the old boss.


I know this because I pay attention to the world around me.

Or you've taken a 5th grade history class. It's a fairly basic concept. Knowing 5th grade history aside, why are you so certain that mj will not be legalized? I think mj will be legalized because of the current trends and the desperation for tax dollars. (In other words, because i pay attention to the world around me). Do you have anything substantive on this issue, or am i supposed to just change my opinion to yours every time you express yourself?
 
The federal government will never allow the absolute legalization of pot. It may allow (depending on the President) medical marijuana, but it won't let it go completely.

BO already said the green dope laws will not be enforced.
 
You mean exactly like growing veggies in your back yard garden, and eating what you grow. Look, you've yet to overcome the "restaurant analogy" that demonstrates that people will pay for a quality product that is convenient. Where there's a demand, there's a supply. Industry will produce a variety of products with a variety of effects that come from blending different strains. You're not going to get that from one or two plants in your basement that are susceptible to bugs, disease, mold and various other natural "enemies". The difference is going to be like the difference between Sam Adams and bathtub beer. Sure, you can make bathtub beer if you've the time and energy, or you can go pick up a six-pack with your burgers and buns, when it's time for a cookout.

Regardless, as i said, where there's a demand, there's a supply. The supply is going to come from one of three basic channels. Free market, black market, and gov't controlled (like tobacco and liquor). Two of those options allow for tax dollars to go to the state. The other doesn't, but rather COSTS tax dollars in regulation and control that doesn't even work. The choice seems rather simple to me.

Everything you said, is happening right now. Everything. It doesn't take much to start an indoor grow. Or even a small crop outdoors. The high THC quality is happening right now, right now, in a **** load of illegal grows. NO govt involvement. No taxes, no pesticides. Purely organic. :rofl
 
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