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Thread: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnYankee View Post
    That's my point. Anyone with a script can grow green dope right now in CA. Doesn't take much to package and make a few sales to make extra cash, tax free. What's a buyer going to do? Ask for your business license? You see, it doesn't take much to grow high quality green dope and undercut the gov't taxed dope. The gov't will not sell it for free? Right? Doesn't take much to recover your operating costs until a profit is made. Doesn't take much to grow a few plants in your backyard and make an enormous profit.

    Damn, I think I might go into farming.
    You mean exactly like growing veggies in your back yard garden, and eating what you grow. Look, you've yet to overcome the "restaurant analogy" that demonstrates that people will pay for a quality product that is convenient. Where there's a demand, there's a supply. Industry will produce a variety of products with a variety of effects that come from blending different strains. You're not going to get that from one or two plants in your basement that are susceptible to bugs, disease, mold and various other natural "enemies". The difference is going to be like the difference between Sam Adams and bathtub beer. Sure, you can make bathtub beer if you've the time and energy, or you can go pick up a six-pack with your burgers and buns, when it's time for a cookout.

    Regardless, as i said, where there's a demand, there's a supply. The supply is going to come from one of three basic channels. Free market, black market, and gov't controlled (like tobacco and liquor). Two of those options allow for tax dollars to go to the state. The other doesn't, but rather COSTS tax dollars in regulation and control that doesn't even work. The choice seems rather simple to me.

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    And you know this how?
    The government rarely gives up power once it's seized it. History is full of the abuses and natural paths of government. I know this because I pay attention to the world around me.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The government rarely gives up power once it's seized it.
    So you admit that it does happen. That's good. We're making progress. You've heard of the 21st amendment, i gather?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    History is full of the abuses and natural paths of government.
    Indeed. It's a lesson we really need to learn and do something about. Unfortunately, those who get into power soon forget that power corrupts, and so the new boss takes on the mantle and mannerisms of the old boss.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I know this because I pay attention to the world around me.
    Or you've taken a 5th grade history class. It's a fairly basic concept. Knowing 5th grade history aside, why are you so certain that mj will not be legalized? I think mj will be legalized because of the current trends and the desperation for tax dollars. (In other words, because i pay attention to the world around me). Do you have anything substantive on this issue, or am i supposed to just change my opinion to yours every time you express yourself?

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The federal government will never allow the absolute legalization of pot. It may allow (depending on the President) medical marijuana, but it won't let it go completely.
    BO already said the green dope laws will not be enforced.

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    You mean exactly like growing veggies in your back yard garden, and eating what you grow. Look, you've yet to overcome the "restaurant analogy" that demonstrates that people will pay for a quality product that is convenient. Where there's a demand, there's a supply. Industry will produce a variety of products with a variety of effects that come from blending different strains. You're not going to get that from one or two plants in your basement that are susceptible to bugs, disease, mold and various other natural "enemies". The difference is going to be like the difference between Sam Adams and bathtub beer. Sure, you can make bathtub beer if you've the time and energy, or you can go pick up a six-pack with your burgers and buns, when it's time for a cookout.

    Regardless, as i said, where there's a demand, there's a supply. The supply is going to come from one of three basic channels. Free market, black market, and gov't controlled (like tobacco and liquor). Two of those options allow for tax dollars to go to the state. The other doesn't, but rather COSTS tax dollars in regulation and control that doesn't even work. The choice seems rather simple to me.
    Everything you said, is happening right now. Everything. It doesn't take much to start an indoor grow. Or even a small crop outdoors. The high THC quality is happening right now, right now, in a **** load of illegal grows. NO govt involvement. No taxes, no pesticides. Purely organic.

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnYankee View Post
    Everything you said, is happening right now. Everything. It doesn't take much to start an indoor grow. Or even a small crop outdoors. The high THC quality is happening right now, right now, in a **** load of illegal grows. NO govt involvement. No taxes, no pesticides. Purely organic.

    No, it's not. I mentioned being able to go pick it up like a six-pack, from your local grocer. You can't do that, jack, and even you should recognize that once a product becomes legal, and people are able to work with it in the open without fear of legal penalty, it gets better and better. That SOME of this has happened so far, despite its illegal status, goes to show how much better it could be and how much better it could be distributed. Also, it'd not be a criminal activity that would cost people their livelihoods.

    I also mentioned that it would provide tax dollars instead of siphoning them away from better uses. That's a big difference in what's happening now. If you can't see that legalizing a product, and taking it out of the control of the black market changes its status, and how it gets to the customer, then i'm not sure how to help you.

    Are you really claiming that marijuana is such a special product that it is the one magical item that nothing about it changes once its use and distribution is legalized? Really? Wow, that's some magic weed! It completely overthrows the laws of economics and capitalism. Why'd we ever worry about the communists when all it takes to destroy capitalism is one little plant?
    Last edited by Sammyo; 07-29-09 at 08:18 PM.

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Not only that, but the blow to the drug cartels would be a major reason on it's own.
    How's that going to hurt the cartels? They're already smuggling drugs that are illegal. What's a little tax evasion to them? The illegal cigarette and liquir businesses are multi-million dollar industries in this country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How's that going to hurt the cartels? They're already smuggling drugs that are illegal. What's a little tax evasion to them? The illegal cigarette and liquir businesses are multi-million dollar industries in this country.
    Because when a product is legal, suppliers and distributors don't have to do business with dangerous criminals willing to take the risk of moving and producing an illegal product. Professional businessmen would put the mj cartels out of business rather quickly, i think, because they could purchase and move the product like tomatoes or oranges, and not like child porn or heroin. Don't you agree?

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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    So you admit that it does happen. That's good. We're making progress. You've heard of the 21st amendment, i gather?
    WTF are you talking about? Are you high now? The federal government grabs power all the time, when did I ever say it didn't? How does that do anything to counter what I said? Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    Indeed. It's a lesson we really need to learn and do something about. Unfortunately, those who get into power soon forget that power corrupts, and so the new boss takes on the mantle and mannerisms of the old boss.
    Durrr, see the Republocrats

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyo View Post
    Or you've taken a 5th grade history class. It's a fairly basic concept. Knowing 5th grade history aside, why are you so certain that mj will not be legalized? I think mj will be legalized because of the current trends and the desperation for tax dollars. (In other words, because i pay attention to the world around me). Do you have anything substantive on this issue, or am i supposed to just change my opinion to yours every time you express yourself?
    Well if you're done being condescending. While the States may wish to legalize in total marijuana so that they can sell and tax it (and I think it's up to the State's to decide for themselves what they want, I think the War on Drugs is nothing more than a propaganda war meant to justify the expansion of the federal government, but as we have already established once the federal government seizes power, it rarely gives it back), those laws will be at odds with the federal laws and agencies, notably the DEA. While Obama said he would halt the raids against medical marijuana, it's already been said that they will not stop for marijuana in general. So a State can say, "we're not going to enforce this, in fact we're going to legalize and tax it" and the federal government will say "think again!". Because the federal government has already usurped that power long ago and will be very unwilling to yield it back.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #30
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    Re: Drive to legalize marijuana rolls on in California

    Quote Originally Posted by DamnYankee View Post
    That's my point. Anyone with a script can grow green dope right now in CA. Doesn't take much to package and make a few sales to make extra cash, tax free. What's a buyer going to do? Ask for your business license? You see, it doesn't take much to grow high quality green dope and undercut the gov't taxed dope. The gov't will not sell it for free? Right? Doesn't take much to recover your operating costs until a profit is made. Doesn't take much to grow a few plants in your backyard and make an enormous profit.

    Damn, I think I might go into farming.
    Why would I as a consumer buy your home grown weed which would likely be grown outdoors, pollinated and laced with seeds at risk of breaking the law to save a few dollars, when I can just drive down the street and buy sinsemilla much the same way I would drive to the liquor store.

    You would have very little demand for your product, just as there is very little demand for moonshine currently.

    Illegal distillation of spirits carries a penalty of up to 5 years in jail and/or up to a $10k fine with the same penalties for attempting to defraud the IRS. A similar penalty for illegal cultivation/distribution would be a significant deterrent.

    Would there still be a few who will do it despite the penalties? yes. Will it have a significant impact to the legally generated tax revenues from legal MJ?? Much the same as moonshine has very little impact on the collection of alcohol taxes, the impact would be minuscule.

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