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Thread: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

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    Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    SAN ANTONIO – The scene was so gruesome investigators could barely speak: A 3 1/2-week-old boy lay dismembered in the bedroom of a single-story house, three of his tiny toes chewed off, his face torn away, his head severed and his brains ripped out.

    "At this particular scene you could have heard a pin drop," San Antonio Police Chief William McManus said Monday. "No one was speaking. It was about as somber as it could have been."

    Officers called to the home early Sunday found the boy's mother, Otty Sanchez, sitting on the couch with a self-inflicted wound to her chest and her throat partially slashed, screaming "I killed my baby! I killed my baby!" police said. She told officers the devil made her do it, police said.


    I have to admit right off the bat that the description the article started with did silence me for a while.

    The article later pointed out the event where a mother had drowned her children to "save them from Satan" and was later found not guilty, because she was suffering from post-partum psychosis. I guess I would like the discussion to be at least partially about not finding people guilty because they were concidered to be insane at the moment of the act. While I accept that there is validity behind that reasoning, in cases like this one where I can't even find suitable words to describe it myself right now, though I'm sure I'll find some, I do feel torn. Just the nature of what happened is so horrible that it's hard for that arguement about insanity to sway your reaction.

    Would justice (moral rather than legal I suppose) be better served by the harhest of punishments for the deed or would it be better served by trying to bring lucidity into the womans life? I must admit that I'm not very aware of the nature of post-partum psychosis, so I don't know if it's long lasting or something that subsides with time.
    Last edited by 7thKeeper; 07-29-09 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Grammatical fixes
    ...we honor leaders for what they achieve, but we often prefer to close our eyes to the way they achieve it...

    In the real world, politics is compromise and democracy is politics. Anyone who would be a statesman has to be a successful politician first. Also, a leader has to deal with people and nations as they are, not as they should be. As a result, the qualities required for leadership are not necessary those that we would want our children to emulate - unless we wanted them to be leaders.

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    I know what you mean. After Andrea Yates, I didn't think I could be shocked by much else, but when I read the details of this case, I found myself shocked and utterly sickened.

    Like Andrea Yates, this baby's mother also had a history of severe mental illness, which made it much more likely that she would experience postpartum psychosis. Many people will say that her words are a convenient excuse meant to clear her of responsibility and consequences for her actions, but the truth is that she likely had a break with reality as you and I know it. I honestly do not know how justice would best be served, except to say that in such cases, I am against the death penalty, and obviously she should never have her freedom or another child. She will have to live with this for the rest of her life. I doubt I could if it were me.

    Right now, all I can think about is that defenseless, innocent baby. Rest in peace, tiny one.




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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    I saw the article on CNN and could not read it after the first sentence. I want to vomit.

    Jeez, I am crying just thinking about it. hiswoman said it perfectly. On top of this, one of my good friends at work went to college with a woman who left her 5-month old son accidentally in her car in Florida--she came back at 5pm, and he was dead. This just happened last Thursday.
    Last edited by aps; 07-29-09 at 08:00 AM.

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    I saw the article on CNN and could not read it after the first sentence. I want to vomit.

    Jeez, I am crying just thinking about it. hiswoman said it perfectly. On top of this, one of my good friends at work went to college with a woman who left her 5-month old son accidentally in her car in Florida--she came back at 5pm, and he was dead. This just happened last Thursday.
    Omg, how awful! We had a similar incident at a new hospital across from my old subdivision. One of the workers went in for her shift, forgetting that her child was in the car, with predictable tragic consequences. Life is so brutal sometimes.




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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Tragedy doesn't seem adequate to describe some situations this being near the top of list. First from my point of view this is a clear case of EVIL not caused by some supernatural source by human based evil that comes from a demented mind. What the ultimate cause of this if up to highly trained Doctors. Our job as I see it is to realize this detachment from reality can happen to many more people than we may imagine and we should have included in our education a little time spent that might help us pick up on signd that may point to the need ofr help for the less fortunate who for what ever reason fall victim to this type of detachment from reality.
    When it comes to punishment for this type of crimes I believe states that have capital punishment as we all know Texas does have a possible verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity that spares the clearly guilty from the death penalty, and this is a case that should really require only a few minutes to come to the conclusion that this woman fits the description to a T. So she'll be institutionalized and I pray that she never really recover because if a time were to come when she could fully undersatnd what she did that alone would drive over the edge again. She should be locked up for ever and rather than be treated she should be drugged 24/7-365 and left to die at some later date. The death penalty might actually be merciful in these cases. I know they make me ill.
    I can only imagine the long term effect on everyone in law enforcement and even the coroners office. It's a lucky thing for me most police agencies do not allow reporters into crime scenes until the victim is removed or editors and news directors would be pushing reporters into situations that would effect them more than they do already by just having to hear gruesome details and then decide what is suitable for public consumption. For some it's a tough, for others no big deal.
    Didn't mean to go on for ever but this one got to me.

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    The article later pointed out the event where a mother had drowned her children to "save them from Satan" and was later found not guilty, because she was suffering from post-partum psychosis.
    If you're referring to Andrea Yates, I don't believe she's been found not guilty, although she was in fact suffering from post-partum psychosis.
    I know of no other mother who fits the description.
    She wasn't executed, she was sentenced to life.
    Perhaps that's what you mean.
    But being granted this amount of mercy does not mean she was found "not guilty".
    It's only that we've chosen not to kill her, but to imprison her forever instead.

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    If you're referring to Andrea Yates, I don't believe she's been found not guilty, although she was in fact suffering from post-partum psychosis.
    I know of no other mother who fits the description.
    She wasn't executed, she was sentenced to life.
    Perhaps that's what you mean.
    But being granted this amount of mercy does not mean she was found "not guilty".
    It's only that we've chosen not to kill her, but to imprison her forever instead.

    Yes, I meant Yates. I was referring to this part of the article myself. Could be that they were referring to the death penalty and not that she wasn't convicted of anything. I checked up on wikipedia and apparently she's currently in a low security state mental hospital.

    Andrea Yates drowned her five children in her Houston-area home 2001, saying she believed Satan was inside her and trying to save them from hell. Her attorneys said she had been suffering from severe postpartum psychosis, and a jury found Yates not guilty by reason of insanity in 2006.
    ...we honor leaders for what they achieve, but we often prefer to close our eyes to the way they achieve it...

    In the real world, politics is compromise and democracy is politics. Anyone who would be a statesman has to be a successful politician first. Also, a leader has to deal with people and nations as they are, not as they should be. As a result, the qualities required for leadership are not necessary those that we would want our children to emulate - unless we wanted them to be leaders.

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    We kill mad dogs.


    This woman needs to be removed from society and the gene pool. I don't care if it was post-partum depression or too many Red Bulls.

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    I also saw this. I was shocked. Another random crazy ass moment in Texas history. Figures.
    It's time for a revolution in our country. Not a revolution forged with guns and bombs but a revolution forged of compassion and altruism. A revolution that extends a hand to those who don't have and who cannot. A revolution that makes Health Care available to all those in the US.

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    First, I'm leery of this “postpartum depression” bit. I’ve never heard of it, so I did some quick reading. It seems that there are quite a few experts that think it’s mythical, especially as a defense against murder.

    That said, I have been in positions where I have witnessed garden variety insanity of high degree. If that’s the case here, then nothing but mercy and protection of the public are the correct responses.

    A further point I’ll bring up.

    Quite a few people have figured out that by claiming any extreme crime was the result of religious indoctrination, especially Christian, high powered defense lawyers will pop up like toast.

    This is something to bear in mind in any case where the perpetrator immediately proclaims that they were made to do something by the Devil, to protect someone frow the Devil, to give their child to Gods, to get them into Heaven, etc.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 07-29-09 at 06:28 PM.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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