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Thread: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Well I think that this will probably end much like that previous case with the drownings. I mean, this lady is obviously completely out of her mind; and it will probably be a not guilty by reason of insanity sort of thing. I personally think it should be "guilty, but crazy".
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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Quote Originally Posted by 7thKeeper View Post
    Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment





    I have to admit right off the bat that the description the article started with did silence me for a while.

    The article later pointed out the event where a mother had drowned her children to "save them from Satan" and was later found not guilty, because she was suffering from post-partum psychosis. I guess I would like the discussion to be at least partially about not finding people guilty because they were concidered to be insane at the moment of the act. While I accept that there is validity behind that reasoning, in cases like this one where I can't even find suitable words to describe it myself right now, though I'm sure I'll find some, I do feel torn. Just the nature of what happened is so horrible that it's hard for that arguement about insanity to sway your reaction.

    Would justice (moral rather than legal I suppose) be better served by the harhest of punishments for the deed or would it be better served by trying to bring lucidity into the womans life? I must admit that I'm not very aware of the nature of post-partum psychosis, so I don't know if it's long lasting or something that subsides with time.
    I worked several infanticide cases in my career. This is more gruesome than any I've personally worked.

    That said, I do not support the death penalty, so regardless of the case facts, I don't believe this woman should be murdered by the state for this crime. I believe she should be locked up for the rest of days. She should never walk the streets a free person again.

    However I do believe that her mental state at the time of the crime should play a factor in her punishment. I'm not sure that intense therapy is worth the effort in her case only because she will hopefully never be free. If however a judge determines that her sentence will include eligibility date for return to society then she absolutely must be placed into a secure institution and receive therapy.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well I think that this will probably end much like that previous case with the drownings. I mean, this lady is obviously completely out of her mind; and it will probably be a not guilty by reason of insanity sort of thing. I personally think it should be "guilty, but crazy".

    I agree. Of course she is insane, what sane person would do this? Should that let her off the hook? HELL NO!
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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    "At this particular scene you could have heard a pin drop," San Antonio Police Chief William McManus said Monday. "No one was speaking. It was about as somber as it could have been."

    Officers called to the home early Sunday found the boy's mother, Otty Sanchez, sitting on the couch with a self-inflicted wound to her chest and her throat partially slashed, screaming "I killed my baby! I killed my baby!" police said. She told officers the devil made her do it, police said.
    No one would do this who is sane, unless they are just evil beyond belief.

    Lock her up in a room with no hard corners in a mental hospital for the rest of her life


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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    She told officers the devil made her do it, police said.
    How come the crazies always blame God or the devil?

    I wonder about these peoples childhoods, were they brought up by religious extremists?

    Do agnostics and athiests commit these kind of atrocities?

    Have the flying spagetti monster and the flying pink unicorn ever been blamed for influencing someone to kill?

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    How come the crazies always blame God or the devil?

    I wonder about these peoples childhoods, were they brought up by religious extremists?

    Do agnostics and athiests commit these kind of atrocities?

    Have the flying spagetti monster and the flying pink unicorn ever been blamed for influencing someone to kill?
    Hitler, Lenin, and Jeffrey Dahmer did some pretty good damage as atheists. I understand that Dahmer might have become a born again christian in his brief prison life, Hitler used some christians who might have mistakenly thought him a god, and Lenin just did had people killed without pretense. It appears that atheists who go wrong become very efficient killers!
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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelbuc View Post
    Hitler, Lenin, and Jeffrey Dahmer did some pretty good damage as atheists. I understand that Dahmer might have become a born again christian in his brief prison life, Hitler used some christians who might have mistakenly thought him a god, and Lenin just did had people killed without pretense. It appears that atheists who go wrong become very efficient killers!
    None of them claimed no god as the reason for killing. I personally don't blame religion for crazy people's actions, but this "look at Hitler and Commies" excuse is completely lame and not applicable as atheism was not the reason behind the brutality.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well I think that this will probably end much like that previous case with the drownings. I mean, this lady is obviously completely out of her mind; and it will probably be a not guilty by reason of insanity sort of thing. I personally think it should be "guilty, but crazy".
    I think "guilty AND crazy" is more accurate.

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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    First, I'm leery of this “postpartum depression” bit. I’ve never heard of it, so I did some quick reading. It seems that there are quite a few experts that think it’s mythical, especially as a defense against murder.
    Postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis are legitimate disorders recognized by the medical community. These conditions affect many women in the weeks and months after childbirth. The difference is degree of severity. Postpartum blues is common and most women experience this mild form of mood instability as the body and hormones return to normal after the herculean physical effort involved in carrying and delivering another human being. The blues last a short period of time and disappear on their own without treatment. Postpartum depression is more serious, extending beyond the first two weeks following delivery, and depending on severity, may require treatment with medication. Postpartum psychosis is the most severe form of the disorder and involves a complete break with reality. It is an emergency that requires immediate hospitalization and treatment with anti-psychotic medication. Women with a history of depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are at greater risk for developing postpartum depression and psychosis. There are also other factors that play a role as well.

    Postpartum Depression: eMedicine Obstetrics and Gynecology
    Postpartum Psychosis
    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis]Postpartum psychosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    Postpartum-Onset OCD - What is Postpartum-Onset OCD
    Postpartum Major Depression: Detection and Treatment - April 15, 1999 - American Academy of Family Physicians
    Delusions

    These women pose a very real danger to themselves and potentially their babies. Any medical professional who dismisses the clear signs of postpartum depression or psychosis is setting themselves up for a malpractice claim should things take a turn for the worse. That level of incompetence suggests that he/she dug their medical license from a box of Cracker Jacks.

    That said, I have been in positions where I have witnessed garden variety insanity of high degree. If that’s the case here, then nothing but mercy and protection of the public are the correct responses.
    Absolutely. Anyone who commits such an act is not fit to live amongst the members of society. I agree with everyone here that she should spend the rest of her days locked up in a treatment facility.

    Quite a few people have figured out that by claiming any extreme crime was the result of religious indoctrination, especially Christian, high powered defense lawyers will pop up like toast.

    This is something to bear in mind in any case where the perpetrator immediately proclaims that they were made to do something by the Devil, to protect someone frow the Devil, to give their child to Gods, to get them into Heaven, etc.
    Ms. Sanchez (as anyone who commits such an atrocity) will be evaluated by a qualified mental health professional. Obviously, just because a person claims supernatural influence/possession doesn't necessarily mean they actually experienced a psychotic break with reality. This woman's psychiatric history, however, makes the likelihood of such an episode very high.
    Last edited by hiswoman; 07-29-09 at 09:42 PM.




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    Re: Texas investigators stunned by child dismemberment

    This is interesting:

    "A recording of the 911 call, which was released before noon Wednesday, confirmed Sanchez claimed she was hearing voices the night of the slaying. It also revealed Sanchez attempted to reach out for help, taking the baby to Garcia, who identifies herself as Sanchez's sister.

    “She's gone crazy last night,” Garcia told dispatchers in the early Sunday morning call. “She was hearing voices and she kept bringing me the baby and finally she calmed down and I took her back the baby, and then now I just woke up to hear screaming.”

    Garcia and Sanchez's mother, who were both in the home at the time, have declined to comment. Garcia's brother, Greg, told reporters Wednesday that the family remained in shock.

    “I still can't believe it happened,” he said. “It feels like I'm trapped in a nightmare.”

    The family announced Wednesday they plan on moving out of the house."


    Mother in 911 call: ?He told me to do it'

    It appears that despite being in the grip of a full-blown psychotic episode, Sanchez tried to prevent what occurred.
    IMO, Garcia should face charges.
    But perhaps she didn't fully understand the situation.

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