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Thread: CBO deals new blow to health plan

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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    "This is about a health care system that is breaking America's families. ... We can't afford the politics of delay and defeat when it comes to health care -- not this time, not now." - Pres Obama
    Remember citizens, in this time of Post Partisanship and change, playing politics and being extremely partisan is detrimental to this country....unless its myself and democrats doing it, in which case, its perfectly acceptable, nae, needed.

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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Remember citizens, in this time of Post Partisanship and change, playing politics and being extremely partisan is detrimental to this country....unless its myself and democrats doing it, in which case, its perfectly acceptable, nae, needed.
    All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
    George Orwell, Animal Farm
    Orwell was prophetic in a scary way.



  3. #33
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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    A higher COL requires that companies pay their employees more so that they can live in these places.

    I can promise you that the average earnings in NYC and LA are higher than most other places in the U.S.


    My family is in NY, and I grew up there, I'm familiar with it.
    Then they should charge more. That's easy.

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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Its not about healthcare, its about the health insurance industry.

    That's more accurate.

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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    My family is in NY, and I grew up there, I'm familiar with it.
    Then they should charge more. That's easy.
    How do you propose they charge more, when Medicare reimbursement rates are set by Washington?

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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Remember citizens, in this time of Post Partisanship and change, playing politics and being extremely partisan is detrimental to this country....unless its myself and democrats doing it, in which case, its perfectly acceptable, nae, needed.

    You, and the rest of the group that is the the three in 10 Americans are of this opinion. The rest of us 7 in 10 Americans are movin' on forward. And, btw, you'll notice that 70% is not the percentage of Democratic registration in this country. There is a rump Republican party playing hyper partisan politics, and they are playing it in order to kill health reform legislation.

    Thankfully, we don't have to wait until 10 out of 10 Americans are of the same opinion. But, it'll be okay, 100 yrs ago people got used to cars, 60 yrs ago people got used to televisions, and the idea that your lifetime employer would provide health insurance coverage for you, woooo-eeeeee, in the 70s people got used to COLOR television. In this new century! god, has it taken this long? even those who will be dragged kicking and screaming across the finish line, will get used to the new health insurance landscape, and will come to realize (it'll take decades for some, I know) that they and the country dodged a big bullet back in '09, when they tried to kill health care reform. And, they'll be thankful.

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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    How do you propose they charge more, when Medicare reimbursement rates are set by Washington?

    State surtax, to pay for the extra state costs.

    Or, become more efficient. They can do it.

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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    This relates to the specific provision of the the health care legislation that was the topic of the OP. I think I posted somewhere back that I'd read that the CBO news on this provision wasn't good news in terms of paying for this bill, but does sound like good news in terms of long term addressing the structural deficit problem that Medicare/Medicaid represents:



    July 25, 2009, 9:06 pm
    More on Paying for Health Reform
    By David Leonhardt

    Peter Orszag, the White House budget director, also wrote a blog post about “MedPac on steroids” this afternoon. In it, he says that this version of MedPac — an empowered panel that’s been proposed by the White House, with the ability to alter how Medicare reimburses medical care — was never intended to help pay for health reform. Instead, it was meant to help reduce the long-term growth of health costs.

    He also took a gentle swipe at the Congressional Budget Office — which he used to run. But fascinating as that is, we’ll get to it in a minute.

    First a bit of background: The fight over health reform involves two kinds of costs. The first is the cost of covering the uninsured. Economists estimate this will cost something like $100 billion a year (and, even at this price, won’t cover all of the uninsured). The second involves reducing the overall growth of medical costs. As readers of my column may know, I think the second is the more important issue. Medical costs are already costing the typical American family thousands of dollars a year, and they are rising at a pace that would make the federal government insolvent.

    The Obama administration is trying to put together a health reform bill that would deal with both of those costs. To pay for the uninsured, they have proposed a package of Medicare changes that would save about $50 billion a year. (The best known is the elimination of the current subsidy for private insurers that provide the same services as Medicare, but not as cheaply.) To bring down long-term costs — or to “bend the curve,” as administration officials like to say — they have proposed several steps, including “MedPac on steroids,” which is formally known as IMAC.

    Many health experts think that the current versions of health reform in Congress don’t do enough to bend the curve. The IMAC proposal was an attempt by the administration to push Congress to do more. As Mr. Orszag writes in his blog post:

    The point of the proposal, however, was never to generate savings over the next decade. (Indeed, under the Administration’s approach, the IMAC system would not even begin to make recommendations until 2015.) Instead, the goal is to provide a mechanism for improving quality of care for beneficiaries and reducing costs over the long term….

    He also noted that the Congressional Budget Office agreed that IMAC “could lead to significant long-term savings in federal spending on health care” He continued: “The bottom line is that it is very rare for CBO to conclude that a specific legislative proposal would generate significant long-term savings so it is noteworthy that, with some modifications, CBO reached such a conclusion with regard to the IMAC concept.”

    What should we make of this? It’s all fair for Mr. Orszag to point out. But it’s also true that the administration would have been very happy if the Congressional Budget Office had decided that IMAC would bring more medium-term savings. That would have left Congress and the administration with a smaller budgetary hole to fill, in order to pay for an expansion of insurance. To fill that hole, Congress is likely to rely largely on a combination of taxes on the wealthy, like a surtax on households making at least $1 million.

    Now, about that swipe Mr. Orszag took at his former place of employ:

    As a former CBO director, I can attest that CBO is sometimes accused of a bias toward exaggerating costs and underestimating savings. Unfortunately, parts of today’s analysis from CBO could feed that perception. For example, and without specifying precisely how the various modifications would work, CBO somehow concluded that the council could “eventually achieve annual savings equal to several percent of Medicare spending…[which] would amount to tens of billions of dollars per year after 2019.” Such savings are welcome (and rare!), but it is also the case that (for good reason) CBO has restricted itself to qualitative, not quantitative, analyses of long-term effects from legislative proposals. In providing a quantitative estimate of long-term effects without any analytical basis for doing so, CBO seems to have overstepped.

    In effect, Mr. Orzag is suggesting that the Congressional Budget Office is overestimating its ability to see into the future.

    It will interesting to see whether Douglas Elmendorf, the current director of the Congressional Budget Office, responds on his blog.

    More on Paying for Health Reform - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com

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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by jackalope View Post
    You, and the rest of the group that is the the three in 10 Americans are of this opinion. The rest of us 7 in 10 Americans are movin' on forward. And, btw, you'll notice that 70% is not the percentage of Democratic registration in this country. There is a rump Republican party playing hyper partisan politics, and they are playing it in order to kill health reform legislation.

    Thankfully, we don't have to wait until 10 out of 10 Americans are of the same opinion. But, it'll be okay, 100 yrs ago people got used to cars, 60 yrs ago people got used to televisions, and the idea that your lifetime employer would provide health insurance coverage for you, woooo-eeeeee, in the 70s people got used to COLOR television. In this new century! god, has it taken this long? even those who will be dragged kicking and screaming across the finish line, will get used to the new health insurance landscape, and will come to realize (it'll take decades for some, I know) that they and the country dodged a big bullet back in '09, when they tried to kill health care reform. And, they'll be thankful.
    Sorry, excuse me a moment while you call me a hyper partisan republican. I need to keep that filed away for the next time in the next week one of the republicans here goes off on how I may as well be a democrat. Sorry bub, but the only hyper partisan here is you and its obvious in each and every blathering, republican bashing, mindlessly spewing democrat talking points, post that you make.

    But that's okay, I'm glad you think so much like George W. Bush. You must be of his ilk I'm guessing. "You're either with us or against us". I love you people that just love the Politics of Fear and other stuff like this. Its very becoming of you.

    And so you care so greatly about polls that THAT is what guides you. Good to know. So I take it when the polls come out showing that the majority of Americans disagree with this ****ty plan and say "Hey, doing something for the sake of doing something doesn't necessarily make it good" you'll obvious be agreeing with them all...because I mean, if the majority wants it that's what matters.

    Yes, there is definitely issues with our health care. We most definitely need reform. HOWEVER it is not so dire and urgent that we must pass something in the next 2 weeks and that something must be nationalized public healthcare. Sorry, I don't buy that. That kind of thinking is as hyper partisan, asinine, fear monger, "Politics as Usual" bull**** that brought about "You're either with us or against us".

    Thanks Barack....Bull**** we can Believe in. Gotta love a change from "politics as usual".

    As the VP says...

    That's not change, that's just more of the same.

  10. #40
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    Re: CBO deals new blow to health plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Sorry, excuse me a moment while you call me a hyper partisan republican. I need to keep that filed away for the next time in the next week one of the republicans here goes off on how I may as well be a democrat. Sorry bub, but the only hyper partisan here is you and its obvious in each and every blathering, republican bashing, mindlessly spewing democrat talking points, post that you make.

    But that's okay, I'm glad you think so much like George W. Bush. You must be of his ilk I'm guessing. "You're either with us or against us". I love you people that just love the Politics of Fear and other stuff like this. Its very becoming of you.

    And so you care so greatly about polls that THAT is what guides you. Good to know. So I take it when the polls come out showing that the majority of Americans disagree with this ****ty plan and say "Hey, doing something for the sake of doing something doesn't necessarily make it good" you'll obvious be agreeing with them all...because I mean, if the majority wants it that's what matters.

    Yes, there is definitely issues with our health care. We most definitely need reform. HOWEVER it is not so dire and urgent that we must pass something in the next 2 weeks and that something must be nationalized public healthcare. Sorry, I don't buy that. That kind of thinking is as hyper partisan, asinine, fear monger, "Politics as Usual" bull**** that brought about "You're either with us or against us".

    Thanks Barack....Bull**** we can Believe in. Gotta love a change from "politics as usual".

    As the VP says...

    That's not change, that's just more of the same.

    You keep mischaracterizing my position AND my opinion. That makes YOU the hyperpartisan, and not me.

    Once again, I'll note, more than 160 Republican amendments have been adopted already to the legislation in the Senate. It is most definitely NOT with us or against us.

    It's pull a seat up to the table and work to pass this, or get out of the way.

    SEVEN IN TEN Americans want this health care legislation passed.

    SEVEN IN TEN Americans are NOT Democrats.

    You can pretend that it's hyperpartisanship, but you are only putting yourself with the rump Republican hyperpartisan caucus left in Congress.

    Step up to the table and work on getting the legislation paid for, and passed. If you don't want to, hey that's fine, but then you stand with the NO NO NO party. Not with the American people.

    However, I agree with you on two weeks. No, it doesn't have to be passed in two weeks.

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