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Thread: Drug czar: Feds won't support legalized pot

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The only refute you have is to preach to me about something that matters not, take my comments out of context and proof read my posts?


    What? You been drinking and posting again son?
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    And our bodies produce their own endogenous cannabinoids such as anandamide which bind to the CB1 and CB2 receptors. So in order to assert that exocannabinoids such as THC and the myriad of others present in marijuana are addicting merely because our bodies have cannabinoid receptors, one would have to show that cessation of usage would actually inhibit the normal function of our endogenous cannabinoids. The mere presence of receptors does not necessitate addiction.

    If there were conclusive studies showing marijuana to be addictive (not the rats who were administered extremely high doses, and then subsequently administered cannabinoid blockers that also inhibit their naturally produced endogenous cannabinoids) they would be widely publicized as they would do miracles to bolster the ONDCP/DEA/DARE ect ect. positions.

    Am I saying marijuana is not addicting? no, not at all, there are a few who do develop addiction symptoms, however animals do not self administer, withdrawal symptoms almost never occur (sweaty palms/anxiety for chronic users being the sole exception, and likely psychosomatic). Marijuana has not been shown to cause a physical dependence, despite an intense desire to demonstrably prove this link.

    Those who do become addicted do so out of choice, just as they would choose to be addicted to video games, ice cream, skydiving, sex, ect. this is psychological dependence as a result of personality, and not to a physical dependence.

    I am sure you are well versed in the psychology part of all this

    This is still a red herring argument for its scheduling, and for the continued prohibition since for the most part those who have a propensity to abuse it already are. As has been hashed and rehashed, prohibition is not a significant deterrent to use.
    I am not advocating prohibition. I am anti-prohibition. However, often what hurts the anti-prohibition position is information presented erroneously, like yours. Yours reads like marijuana is fine and not addictive at all. Not true. Read Binary Digit's information. Same information as I've seen. Marijuana IS physically addictive in a minority of people, and DOES cause physical dependence in that same minority. Providing erroneous information about that, is just as bad as telling people that if you smoke marijuana you WILL become addicted.

    Most people who drink do not become alcoholics. Most who smoke marijuana do not become addicted. However, SOME of each group will.

    And as far as addictions such as sex, video games, gambling, etc... we already know that brain scans of these folks are similar to those of folks who are addicted to substances...as opposed to those who are not. The biology of addiction lends itself to the medical model and to the physical addiction concept, even when it seems as if this should not be the case.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    What are the physical withdrawal symptoms of ceasing marijuana use? I was a very heavy smoker and stopped suddenly, I didn't experience any physical withdrawal; I donít know anybody who has.
    You were fortunate. You may not have been addicted. I know quite a few who were and who DID have physical withdrawal symptoms. Those symptoms included difficulty sleeping, GI irritation, headaches, and irritability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Please provide links when you quote something directly. I believe you are quoting from here, yes?

    marijuana statistics

    Let's take a look one of their other claims about marijuana and driving:

    "Data has shown that people high on marijuana show the same lack of coordination on standard "drunk driver" tests as do people who have had to much to drink."

    But here's a series of studies by the U.S. Department of Transportation:

    "Marijuana's effects on actual driving performance were assessed in a series of three studies wherein dose-effect relationships were measured in actual driving situations that progressively approached reality. (snip) Alcohol impaired performance relative to placebo but subjects did not perceive it. THC did not impair driving performance yet the subjects thought it had. These studies show that THC in single inhaled doses up to 300 g/kg has significant, yet not dramatic, dose-related impairing effects on driving performance."

    Marijuana And Actual Driving Performance* - Abstract

    And here's a study by the National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre in Austrailia:

    "The results of studies within the last 10 years have failed to present clear evidence for a role of cannabis in road crashes. The role of alcohol in all studies has proved to be dominant."

    Cannabis and Road Safety - Executive Summary

    So I wonder where "marijuana-addiction.info" is getting their "data" that shows pot smokers just as incapacitated as alcohol drinkers? And I wonder where they get the rest of their "data" as well.


    Oops, another false assertion by the amatures at "marijuana-addiction.info."

    "The largest study of its kind has unexpectedly concluded that smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer. The new findings "were against our expectations," said Donald Tashkin of the University of California at Los Angeles, a pulmonologist who has studied marijuana for 30 years. "We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use," he said. "What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect.""

    Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection - washingtonpost.com
    Both of your assertions, smoking marijuana has no effect on driving and no marijuana-cancer link are incorrect. I posted something on the former a while ago and will have to find it. I read something, recently, in the latter, and again will have to find it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You were fortunate. You may not have been addicted. I know quite a few who were and who DID have physical withdrawal symptoms. Those symptoms included difficulty sleeping, GI irritation, headaches, and irritability.
    I was a heavy pot smoker many years ago. When I decided to give it up there were no physical withdrawal symptoms at all. I missed it at times as you do anything you enjoy but decide to give up but nothing that could be described as physical withdrawal symptoms.

    Now let's talk cigarettes. I've quit them time and again only to go back. This time I do believe I've got them licked for good.

    But...

    There were physical withdrawal symptoms this time as there has been every time I'm tried to quit.

  6. #76
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    . Yours reads like marijuana is fine and not addictive at all. Not true. Read Binary Digit's information. Same information as I've seen. Marijuana IS physically addictive in a minority of people, and DOES cause physical dependence in that same minority. Providing erroneous information about that, is just as bad as telling people that if you smoke marijuana you WILL become addicted.
    And here I was trying to make sure when I posted not to deny that there is such a thing as marijuana addiction.

    To the best of my knowledge (and I have done a lot of research on the subject, as well as personal experience and anecdotal) I have seen no evidence either through study, or experience that shows a physical dependence. I do not think this is erroneous information at all, although I will concede that a physical dependence has neither been substantiated, nor disqualified.

    Believe me, I have no intentions of spreading erroneous information, there is way too much on both sides of this issue, and it does undermine the debate. I I do strive to keep as factually based as possible. Perhaps I did not frame my reply as well as I could have if you got the impression that i was saying it was not addictive at all.

    My intention was to differentiate between physical addiction and the psychological addiction as a counterpoint to the "ohh my god we are going to be a nation full of junkies" aspect of the post that I was replying to. I made no claims that there is no such thing as addiction to marijuana.

    What addiction there is to marijuana is a weak addiction, one that will not foster an immense craving, one that can easily be broken. Despite the broad clinical definition of addiction. What research has been done has yet to demonstrate a physical chemical dependence (exo-chemical dependence so you do not parse this). If there is conclusive research on this, I have yet to see it, and I am sure it would be very quickly propagated and widely publicized if there were conclusive studies showing a physical dependence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Courtesy
    And as far as addictions such as sex, video games, gambling, etc... we already know that brain scans of these folks are similar to those of folks who are addicted to substances...as opposed to those who are not. The biology of addiction lends itself to the medical model and to the physical addiction concept, even when it seems as if this should not be the case.
    I knew you were going to say something along the lines of brain chemistry changing with psychological addictions. These people also on occasion get mild physical manifestations (irritability, anxiety, restlessness) when severed from their psychological addictions as well don't they?


    GI problems? multiple cases, or isolated? this is a new one to me.
    Last edited by marduc; 07-25-09 at 10:22 PM.

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Ultimately, the medical pluses of pot don't out-weigh the negatives.

    I mean, hey, maggots have medicinal qualities, but do we really want to use them?
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ultimately, the medical pluses of pot don't out-weigh the negatives.

    I mean, hey, maggots have medicinal qualities, but do we really want to use them?
    Care to elaborate so that we can actually have something to use that would actually further the discussion?

    I would venture to say that chemo-addled person who is actually able to keep food down after a bit of marijuana has an entirely different opinion.

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Moderator's Warning:
    Drug czar: Feds won't support legalized potStay on topic please and cease with the personal attacks.

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    And here I was trying to make sure when I posted not to deny that there is such a thing as marijuana addiction.
    I could see that you were really trying to do that, and I respect that. It always irritates me when people will tell others, especially young people that any substance they use will lead them to be a homeless failure, laying in the gutter. Plenty of people use a variety of substances responsibly, with no major ill effects. But the same goes the opposite way. Marijuana is not a harmless drug.

    To the best of my knowledge (and I have done a lot of research on the subject, as well as personal experience and anecdotal) I have seen no evidence either through study, or experience that shows a physical dependence. I do not think this is erroneous information at all, although I will concede that a physical dependence has neither been substantiated, nor disqualified.
    I have done both research and have anecdotal evidence that demonstrates that it can be physically addictive, depending on use and the person.

    Believe me, I have no intentions of spreading erroneous information, there is way too much on both sides of this issue, and it does undermine the debate. I I do strive to keep as factually based as possible. Perhaps I did not frame my reply as well as I could have if you got the impression that i was saying it was not addictive at all.
    I agree. Far too much erroneous information, mostly based on political agendas.

    My intention was to differentiate between physical addiction and the psychological addiction as a counterpoint to the "ohh my god we are going to be a nation full of junkies" aspect of the post that I was replying to. I made no claims that there is no such thing as addiction to marijuana.
    If marijuana was legalized, we would not become a nation full of junkies. A small percentage of people who did not use, would. A small percentage of people who used minimally, would extend their use into addiction. Accent on the word "small". And there is a difference between psychological addiction and physical addiction, though in my experience, both are usually present.

    What addiction there is to marijuana is a weak addiction, one that will not foster an immense craving, one that can easily be broken. Despite the broad clinical definition of addiction. What research has been done has yet to demonstrate a physical chemical dependence (exo-chemical dependence so you do not parse this). If there is conclusive research on this, I have yet to see it, and I am sure it would be very quickly propagated and widely publicized if there were conclusive studies showing a physical dependence.
    The addictive qualities of marijuana ARE weaker than that of alcohol, nicotine, and opiates. Has to do with the chemicals that are bound by it. That does not negate that there is a physical addiction, one that has been documented. Withdrawal symptoms do happen. Do they happen to everyone? No. But they happen.

    I knew you were going to say something along the lines of brain chemistry changing with psychological addictions. These people also on occasion get mild physical manifestations (irritability, anxiety, restlessness) when severed from their psychological addictions as well don't they?
    Sure. But there is a difference. The restlessness and sleeplessness caused by anxiety is different than that caused by physical withdrawal. Remember something. Addiction triggers and overstimulates certain brain/body chemicals. This lack of induced stimulation is seen in people addicted. This is part of the physical addiction.


    GI problems? multiple cases, or isolated? this is a new one to me.
    Multiple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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