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Thread: Drug czar: Feds won't support legalized pot

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    LOL hahaha

    He was prob'ly gonna fight you later when he was finished doing whatever he wasn't doing. Just not right now--didn't want to kill his buzz.

    very funny
    You know that might very well be true. Thank god for the herb in that case!

    *insert profound statement here*

  2. #42
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    From WAMM.


    From the N.Y. Times



    Those are just the first two examples I pulled up referencing the medical benefits of marijuana.



    Your opinion is not supported by any fact. The facts are that personal responsibility is what is at issue here. People abuse prescription drugs just as much as they do marijuana. Easily.

    You can take your moral argument and wrap it around the board that...well I'll reserve that comment. Your "moral" argument is irrelevant on all levels and has no place in this discussion. You have absolutely no credible argument regarding marijuana's effect on "virtue." Where do you come up with this argument anyway?


    What difference does that make? What have lima beans "really done to advance society?" How about soft drinks? Or cupcakes? Or Big Macs? What I see in your post is your desire to have the morality police tell us how to live. That is your basic argument. That is not neither reasonable nor intelligent.

    Now why don't you actually make a reasonable and intelligent argument against marijuana?

    The medical benefits of marijuana alone are enough justification to take it off Schedule 1.

    Ok, thank you. So, tell me, how many drugs are there on the market that do all the same things and don't cause cancer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #43
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Ok, thank you. So, tell me, how many drugs are there on the market that do all the same things and don't cause cancer?
    Only if you'll tell me all of the abuse related risks that go along with all the other drugs on the market.

    How about you come with an actual argument?
    *insert profound statement here*

  4. #44
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Only if you'll tell me all of the abuse related risks that go along with all the other drugs on the market.

    How about you come with an actual argument?
    I'm not arguing. I'm playing the devil's advocate, trying to get an actual argument from the pro-pot faction. Something more than, "a semi-logical argument", as one poster put it.

    You're, "staying home to get stoned, instead of being at a bar getting drunk", position is the lamist of all, because not only are folks going to be out drinking, they're going to be out smoking dope, too. You'll end up with non-drinkers and non-smokers getting buzzed from the second hand smoke and then driving home.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #45
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Speaking of 70 years of effective propaganda

    Any addiction there may be to MJ is psychological, there is NO physical addiction. Alcohol or nicotine on the other hand...



    MJ is not physically addicting!
    This is not accurate. Marijuana is absolutely physically addicting. Recent studies have discovered that human brains have "canabinoid" receptors...similar to opioid receptors, the things that make opiates so physically addicting. Though less addicting than opiates, cannabis creates similar affects that can define an addiction...the need for more to get the same effect, physical/psychological withdrawal when a heavy user stops, interference in life activities, etc... These canabiniod receptors also tend to trigger the opioid receptors, both increasing the addictive effect and lending potential credence to the "gateway effect" which, for the most part, has been disproven in coorelational studies from what I can remember. Regardless, marijuana NOT being physically addictive is a fallacy. Is it as addictive as alcohol, nicotine, or heroin? No.

    Further, as far as the medical benefits of marijuana, there certainly are some. They are, however, overruled by the negative effects, especially of smoking it. I believe that is why it remains a Schedule 1 drug.
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Yes I do believe the benefits outweigh the risks. It's been medically proven. As a vice it's no more harmful than cigarettes, and it's much less harmful than a heavy alcohol intake.
    actually its worse than both

    "Reaction time for motor skills, such as driving, are reduced by 41% after smoking 1 joint and is reduced by 63% after smoking 2 joints"

    "The daily use of 1 to 3 marijuana joints can produce the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes."

    Yeah, it's an intoxicant. We know that. Nobody is advocating that you smoke and drive, smoke an work, smoke and take care do brain surgery. Your argument that marijuana is bad because it's an intoxicant is lame. So is morphine (which is truly addictive), but it's okay for medical use.

    What you are arguing is a matter of personal responsibility. If you smoke ten blunts a day, every day you're gonna have problems if you have a job. Unless your job is a pot quality control tester. You want to regulate personal personal responsibility. Your logic is ****ed because the government cannot do that. The human desire for vices cannot be managed by regulation.
    this will be the last time i am going to respond to you because i know i am dealing with a true nut case, your not even providing the logical arguments of PRO-Marijuana advocates.

    the point i am trying to make and have been trying to make, is that with increased use there is increased numbers of addiction. and with addiction comes the losses, or do you think addiction also is beneficial?

    Yeah, so why don't you put some numbers to this. I hear you complaining about the "losses" so why don't you go ahead and quantify those for us. Your opinion will not suffice here.
    do you really think it is possible to quantify emotional loss? put it in numbers?
    economically,

    "The negative consequences of drug abuse affect not only individuals who abuse drugs but also their families and friends, various businesses, and government resources. Although many of these effects cannot be quantified, ONDCP recently reported that in 2002, the economic cost of drug abuse to the United States was $180.9 billion. "

    We're talking about casual pot smokers, not drug addicts. Stop injecting additional aggravating factors. You're also assuming that the pot smoker will show up to work high. Again that is not an issue of marijuana benefit or risk, but of personal responsibility.
    Wrong,
    i am talking about Abusers and the effect that a more socially executable drug such as Marijuana WILL have on the number of abusers, Not to mention the casual smokers who decide to get in their car after a join or 2 on a Saturday night

    And you've not articulated how marijuana has HURT us. You have got on your soap box and beat your chest about morality and virtue, which is the truly moronic argument in this thread, yet provided no proof that marijuana is what is actually hurting this society. Two words for you Roth...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
    WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT! i have said the word Morality 2 times, one of which was to say it was my own belief and has little to do with my point! you can shape your image of me anyway you would like but if you have Read my argument then you would know i am not making that stand here and now.

    And personal responsibility isn't so personal when someone is irresponsible.
    but here are the effects on society.

    "Children of individuals who abuse drugs often are abused or neglected as a result of the individuals' preoccupation with drugs. National-level studies have shown that parents who abuse drugs often put their need to obtain and abuse drugs before the health and welfare of their children."

    "Children whose parents and other family members abuse drugs often are physically or emotionally abused and often lack proper immunizations, medical care, dental care, and necessities such as food, water, and shelter. "

    "The economic impact of drug abuse on businesses whose employees abuse drugs can be significant. While many drug abusers are unable to attain or hold full-time employment, those who do work put others at risk, particularly when employed in positions where even a minor degree of impairment could be catastrophic; airline pilots, air traffic controllers, train operators, and bus drivers are just a few examples."

    No, I was making a statement about the hypocrisy of this nation that has legalized prescription drug abuse and alcohol abuse yet we continue to vilify marijuana for no intelligent reason. All those stories of yours are very sad. And they are all an issue of personal responsibility.
    Prescription drug abuse is an entirely different subject, There is a doctor standing in between you and a drug, most drugs used for short periods of time and for specific reasons and specific problems, and if someone abuses those drugs, it is largely the fault of the doctor continuing to supply the patient with those drugs. Most Medical drug abuse is NON prescription drugs.

    Thank god you don't get the cancer causing effects of cigarettes and the debilitating effects to your motor skills with over the counter drugs at least.

    unfortunately you forget not all people are responsible, in fact, it only takes one act of irresponsibility in the billions of decisions we make in our lives, to effect all those around you in a negative way.

    Cup cakes are not safe. Mountain Dew is not safe. Oxycontin is not safe. All are legal. But when the user throws responsibility out the window and abuses the substance, whatever it is, there are potentially bad results.

    Let's get to the real reason you don't blindly reject all the studies that prove the medical benefits of marijuana and go on to vilify it like it's Satan incarnate.

    The problem is not the herb, the problem is your inability to cope with the decisions your loved ones made and the impact those decisions had on you personally. I've been there.
    up cakes are not safe??? Mountain dew is not safe? what are you smoking? wait let me guess Marijuana...
    I dont fear that ill kill someone if i drive after eating a cup cake and drinking a can of Mountain dew.

    I dont Deny the Medical Benefits Of Marijuana, and i have not thus far, But what i have said is that The Drug has more adverse Effects than Benefits, and that all the Benefits you get from Medical Marijuana you can get from Already Produced alternatives without the Economic and Social impact that Marijuana can have and does Already have upon people.

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    "The daily use of 1 to 3 marijuana joints can produce the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking five times as many cigarettes."
    That's the part that blows me away. The folks that are the strongest supporters of legal weed are the same folks who are the strongest opponents of fast food, soft drinks and cigarettes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #48
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Does anyone actually think that in the current climate that a bill could get passed legalizing weed?

    Sen. Jim Webbs commission on prison reform is going to address this issue, and if the bi-partisan commission can come to a unanimous conclusion then maybe afterwords there could be some support built. Right now it is a face off of pure political partisanship.

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I actually have an issue. If even one person who didn't smoke because of the illegality of weed decided to try it after it was legalized, then legalization increased the usage of marijuana.

    But here the thing...WHO CARES? If usage goes up 10 percent...so what? Somebody relaxing with friends and smoking some bud is much better all around than a bar full of raging drunks.

    I hope it does increase usage. A large portion of society enjoys getting intoxicated in some way...let's face it, the reasons are many, but the desire is there. In my career as a cop I never ONCE fought a stoner. I fought countless drunks and meth users.

    Let the people have their herb.
    This seems like a common misconception amongst the marijuana threads. No one is suggesting that drug laws have no affect on druge use, we're saying it has a negligible affect on drug use. It's an important distinction.

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by sam_w View Post
    Does anyone actually think that in the current climate that a bill could get passed legalizing weed?

    Sen. Jim Webbs commission on prison reform is going to address this issue, and if the bi-partisan commission can come to a unanimous conclusion then maybe afterwords there could be some support built. Right now it is a face off of pure political partisanship.
    I think if anything decriminalization.

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