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Thread: Drug czar: Feds won't support legalized pot

  1. #31
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    WOW, do you really want me to fill this entire thread with the facts of drug abuse on people? and what even moderate use can do to children as well as adults?
    where are you getting your facts from? do you honestly believe that the benefits that Marijuana has some some conditions out weigh its risks? you should have listed the cons as well, because there are friken tons of them hence why it is schedule 1

    socially, all you have to do is look at the adverse effects that alcohol abuse has on them.

    "
    Effects on Daily Life
    Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. In one study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including physical and mental health, cognitive abilities, social life, and career status.11 Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover."


    there are your economic losses and your social losses,

    Use your brain, you think a drug addict interacts normally? that they can preform the same kind of productivity as their non-smoking counterparts?

    and though it made me laugh, your moronic argument that a a lima beam hasnt really advanced the human race isn't relevant to what i ment in context. the point is that A lima bean hasnt HURT us.

    Sure people abuse prescription drugs, But is that a good thing??? you made that point as to justify the abuse of Marijuana and other drugs. My aunt abbused prescription drugs and she is ****ed up now, My dad was on some heavy drugs including Marijuana and killed himself. My grandpa who was a symphony violinist, ruined his life with alcohol addiction.

    something tells me these cases are not isolated incidents...

    Is that enough proof for you? want me to tell you the social impact that has had on my life and my family around me not to have my dad in my life?

    there is the social impact for you, and as for the moral impact, i guess that is more of a personal belief your right.

    here is a statistic..


    There have been over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana poses. Not one study has shown marijuana to be safe.

    "Marijuanaaddiction.info"

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    WOW, do you really want me to fill this entire thread with the facts of drug abuse on people? and what even moderate use can do to children as well as adults?
    where are you getting your facts from? do you honestly believe that the benefits that Marijuana has some some conditions out weigh its risks? you should have listed the cons as well, because there are friken tons of them hence why it is schedule 1

    socially, all you have to do is look at the adverse effects that alcohol abuse has on them.

    "
    Effects on Daily Life
    Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. In one study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including physical and mental health, cognitive abilities, social life, and career status.11 Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover."


    there are your economic losses and your social losses,

    Use your brain, you think a drug addict interacts normally? that they can preform the same kind of productivity as their non-smoking counterparts?

    and though it made me laugh, your moronic argument that a a lima beam hasnt really advanced the human race isn't relevant to what i ment in context. the point is that A lima bean hasnt HURT us.

    Sure people abuse prescription drugs, But is that a good thing??? you made that point as to justify the abuse of Marijuana and other drugs. My aunt abbused prescription drugs and she is ****ed up now, My dad was on some heavy drugs including Marijuana and killed himself. My grandpa who was a symphony violinist, ruined his life with alcohol addiction.

    something tells me these cases are not isolated incidents...

    Is that enough proof for you? want me to tell you the social impact that has had on my life and my family around me not to have my dad in my life?

    there is the social impact for you, and as for the moral impact, i guess that is more of a personal belief your right.

    here is a statistic..


    There have been over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana poses. Not one study has shown marijuana to be safe.

    "Marijuanaaddiction.info"
    I know, i know, im just a bad person going nowhere in life

    Anyways, do you have a link (not counting that propaganda site) to these 7k studies?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #33
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    If the active ingredient in Marijuana is already legal and is in a drug, then why would there be any need to actually do the drug.
    Marinol is prescribed to treat nausea in chemotherapy patients. Since it comes in pill form, this method of delivery is counter-intuitive to the symptoms it is designed to alleviate. As such, many people suffering from nausea find it difficult to keep Marinol pills down, and they find it much easier to acquire their THC through smoked marijuana instead.

    Marinol also has certain side effects that smoked marijuana doesn't have, such as skin rashes and numbness/tingling of the hands.

    DRONABINOL - ORAL (Marinol) side effects, medical uses, and drug interactions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    Loss of productivity on an economic scale, loss of virtue on a moral scale, and loss of social stability with those around any addict are problems that we face as a society by the increased use of Marijuana if it is legalized.
    The notion that marijuana use would increase if legalized is not supported by any relevant studies on the subject. Please see this post for details.
    Last edited by Binary_Digit; 07-25-09 at 04:20 PM.

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    WOW, do you really want me to fill this entire thread with the facts of drug abuse on people? and what even moderate use can do to children as well as adults?
    No, we do not need you to erect an army of straw men. Please cease and desist all non-essential activity.

    where are you getting your facts from? do you honestly believe that the benefits that Marijuana has some some conditions out weigh its risks? you should have listed the cons as well, because there are friken tons of them hence why it is schedule 1
    SCHEDULE 1!!! O NOOOZ!!!

    Perhaps a history lesson on the criminalization of marijuana will help you understand things better.

    Until the inclusion of marijuana in the Uniform Narcotic Drug Act in 1932 and the passage of the Marihuana Tax Act in 1937, there was no "national" public policy regarding the drug. However, as early as 1914 the New York City Sanitary Laws included cannabis in a prohibited drug list and in 1915 Utah passed the first state statute prohibiting sale or possession of the drug. By 1931 twenty-two states had enacted such legislation. In the succeeding section, we shall delve into the circumstances surrounding the passage of several of these early laws and the ensuing judicial acquiescence in the legislative value judgments concerning marijuana. We conclude that the legislative action and approval were essentially kneejerk responses uninformed by scientific study or public debate and colored instead by racial bias and sensationalistic myths.
    --Virginia Law Review

    The Genesis of Marijuana Prohibition


    ...socially, all you have to do is look at the adverse effects that alcohol abuse has on them.
    So, you want to criminalize alcohol too then?

    "
    Effects on Daily Life
    Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. In one study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including physical and mental health, cognitive abilities, social life, and career status.11 Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover."


    there are your economic losses and your social losses,

    Use your brain, you think a drug addict interacts normally? that they can preform the same kind of productivity as their non-smoking counterparts?

    and though it made me laugh, your moronic argument that a a lima beam hasnt really advanced the human race isn't relevant to what i ment in context. the point is that A lima bean hasnt HURT us.

    Sure people abuse prescription drugs, But is that a good thing??? you made that point as to justify the abuse of Marijuana and other drugs. My aunt abbused prescription drugs and she is ****ed up now, My dad was on some heavy drugs including Marijuana and killed himself. My grandpa who was a symphony violinist, ruined his life with alcohol addiction.

    something tells me these cases are not isolated incidents...

    Is that enough proof for you? want me to tell you the social impact that has had on my life and my family around me not to have my dad in my life?

    there is the social impact for you, and as for the moral impact, i guess that is more of a personal belief your right.

    here is a statistic..


    There have been over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana poses. Not one study has shown marijuana to be safe.

    "Marijuanaaddiction.info"
    Naturally, most things taken to excess are harmful - no one is contending otherwise - but that doesn't mean we should criminalize an activity solely on that basis.

    There's this thing called self-determination, as in the right to, which means people are free to make choices so long as they do not directly harm another person, at least, that' the way our Founding Fathers saw things.

    So, when we talk about rights we talk about them as our Founders understood them, which is to say they are negative rights. Jefferson provided a perfect litmus test for legitimate exercises of liberty in a letter to an associate:

    "Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual." --Thomas Jefferson to Isaac H. Tiffany, 1819.

    Jefferson on Politics & Government: Inalienable Rights


    Basically, even if there was a practical reason for criminalizing drugs (which there isn't) there's no moral basis for it either. You do not possess the moral authority to criminalize another person's drug use, which means the government does not possess the legal authority to do so on your behalf.

    Stay out of other people's lives and worry about yourself.


  5. #35
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    WOW, do you really want me to fill this entire thread with the facts of drug abuse on people? and what even moderate use can do to children as well as adults?
    where are you getting your facts from? do you honestly believe that the benefits that Marijuana has some some conditions out weigh its risks? you should have listed the cons as well, because there are friken tons of them hence why it is schedule 1

    socially, all you have to do is look at the adverse effects that alcohol abuse has on them.

    "
    Effects on Daily Life
    Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. In one study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including physical and mental health, cognitive abilities, social life, and career status.11 Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover."


    there are your economic losses and your social losses,

    Use your brain, you think a drug addict interacts normally? that they can preform the same kind of productivity as their non-smoking counterparts?

    and though it made me laugh, your moronic argument that a a lima beam hasnt really advanced the human race isn't relevant to what i ment in context. the point is that A lima bean hasnt HURT us.

    Sure people abuse prescription drugs, But is that a good thing??? you made that point as to justify the abuse of Marijuana and other drugs. My aunt abbused prescription drugs and she is ****ed up now, My dad was on some heavy drugs including Marijuana and killed himself. My grandpa who was a symphony violinist, ruined his life with alcohol addiction.

    something tells me these cases are not isolated incidents...

    Is that enough proof for you? want me to tell you the social impact that has had on my life and my family around me not to have my dad in my life?

    there is the social impact for you, and as for the moral impact, i guess that is more of a personal belief your right.

    here is a statistic..


    There have been over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana poses. Not one study has shown marijuana to be safe.

    "Marijuanaaddiction.info"
    What does any of that have to do with doctors being able to prescribe smoked marijuana in the legitimate practice of medicine?

    Also you are misinformed about what Schedule 1 means and why marijuana is considered Schedule 1. All Schedule 1 means is that there is no medicinal value, which is bald-faced lie.
    Last edited by Binary_Digit; 07-25-09 at 04:34 PM.

  6. #36
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    If the active ingredient in Marijuana is already legal and is in a drug, then why would there be any need to actually do the drug.
    There are a myriad of cannabinoids in marijuana aside from THC, which is marketed in pill form, the net therapeutic effect from marijuana is a conglomerate from the sum total of cannabinoids, not merely the THC, which is the main psychoactive compound.

    People who have used the Marinol (synthetic prescription THC) regularly attest that the pill is not nearly as effective as actual marijuana at giving them relief, and instead just gets them very, very stoned.

    It is not the THC alone that is therapeutic, but it is a conglomerate of the overall cannabinoid cocktail found in marijuana. Unfortunately there is a dearth of research n this subject, especially in the U.S since any and all studies MUST get approved by the DEA, and must get their supply from the federal farm in Mississippi. This is not an easy task, even if it is for legitimate research, they are not to keen on allowing this plant to be researched in depth. I dunno.. perhaps they are scared that it will destroy 70 years of propaganda and demonetization


    Quote Originally Posted by MR. Roth
    simply people like it, they are addicted, and they are using semi-logical arguments to prevent their addiction from being suddenly taken away from them.
    Speaking of 70 years of effective propaganda

    Any addiction there may be to MJ is psychological, there is NO physical addiction. Alcohol or nicotine on the other hand...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth
    Loss of productivity on an economic scale, loss of virtue on a moral scale, and loss of social stability with those around any addict are problems that we face as a society by the increased use of Marijuana if it is legalized.
    MJ is not physically addicting!

    Furthermore, MJ is going to cause the decay of society huh?? pure reefer madness, this was what got us into this mess in the first place all because of those damn Mexicans and black jazz musicians going around raping everyone's white daughters while stoned.

    Marijuana usage already is rampant, and any undermining of productivity, virtue, and society as a whole that may have occurred already has.


    Prohibition has fostered disrespect for the laws, given immense power and allure to gangs, and fueled the related violence. The lure of easy money from a black market product has enticed countless young teens into dropping out of high school, and never becoming productive members of society. Prohibition has saddled people with criminal records and made it a Herculean task for them to get a good job and do their part to be productive members of society. Prohibition has fostered a lack of respect for the law, and for our government, prohibition has caused the decay of morals and production, economic woes, and an immense loss of social stability.

    Alas, your demons are real, and they are scary; however, your demons are a result of prohibition, not the marijuana itself, and already exist on a very large scale.
    Last edited by marduc; 07-25-09 at 04:46 PM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    WOW, do you really want me to fill this entire thread with the facts of drug abuse on people? and what even moderate use can do to children as well as adults?
    Yes I do. If that's what it takes for you to miraculously debunk the very strong pro-marijuana argument. I say you better get started. Oh, and while you're on your morality pony whipping it for all it's worth, because that's what you're doing, you should address soft drinks, cigarettes, fast food, and porn.
    where are you getting your facts from? do you honestly believe that the benefits that Marijuana has some some conditions out weigh its risks? you should have listed the cons as well, because there are friken tons of them hence why it is schedule 1
    Yes I do believe the benefits outweigh the risks. It's been medically proven. As a vice it's no more harmful than cigarettes, and it's much less harmful than a heavy alcohol intake.

    socially, all you have to do is look at the adverse effects that alcohol abuse has on them.
    But we you can't compare alcohol and marijuana. It's apples and oranges. Different ingredients have different effects upon the body. Different dosages have an impact as well.

    "
    Effects on Daily Life
    Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. In one study, heavy marijuana abusers reported that the drug impaired several important measures of life achievement including physical and mental health, cognitive abilities, social life, and career status.11 Several studies associate workers’ marijuana smoking with increased absences, tardiness, accidents, workers’ compensation claims, and job turnover."
    Yeah, it's an intoxicant. We know that. Nobody is advocating that you smoke and drive, smoke an work, smoke and take care do brain surgery. Your argument that marijuana is bad because it's an intoxicant is lame. So is morphine (which is truly addictive), but it's okay for medical use.

    What you are arguing is a matter of personal responsibility. If you smoke ten blunts a day, every day you're gonna have problems if you have a job. Unless your job is a pot quality control tester. You want to regulate personal personal responsibility. Your logic is ****ed because the government cannot do that. The human desire for vices cannot be managed by regulation.

    there are your economic losses and your social losses,
    Yeah, so why don't you put some numbers to this. I hear you complaining about the "losses" so why don't you go ahead and quantify those for us. Your opinion will not suffice here.

    Use your brain, you think a drug addict interacts normally? that they can preform the same kind of productivity as their non-smoking counterparts?
    We're talking about casual pot smokers, not drug addicts. Stop injecting additional aggravating factors. You're also assuming that the pot smoker will show up to work high. Again that is not an issue of marijuana benefit or risk, but of personal responsibility.

    and though it made me laugh, your moronic argument that a a lima beam hasnt really advanced the human race isn't relevant to what i ment in context. the point is that A lima bean hasnt HURT us.
    And you've not articulated how marijuana has HURT us. You have got on your soap box and beat your chest about morality and virtue, which is the truly moronic argument in this thread, yet provided no proof that marijuana is what is actually hurting this society. Two words for you Roth...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

    Sure people abuse prescription drugs, But is that a good thing??? you made that point as to justify the abuse of Marijuana and other drugs. My aunt abbused prescription drugs and she is ****ed up now, My dad was on some heavy drugs including Marijuana and killed himself. My grandpa who was a symphony violinist, ruined his life with alcohol addiction.
    No, I was making a statement about the hypocrisy of this nation that has legalized prescription drug abuse and alcohol abuse yet we continue to vilify marijuana for no intelligent reason. All those stories of yours are very sad. And they are all an issue of personal responsibility.

    something tells me these cases are not isolated incidents...
    That would be common sense.

    Is that enough proof for you? want me to tell you the social impact that has had on my life and my family around me not to have my dad in my life?
    You don't need to tell me anything about your family. I have a brother who is a homeless meth addict, a sister strung out prescription pain killers and psych drugs, most of my cousins are meth or heroin addicts. I got your family sob story and then some pal. In every case it's a matter of the person not being responsible in their behavior. I also worked a decade and a half fighting the "War on Drugs" as a cop, spent two and half years leading a drug task force. We can compare notes on the impacts of all kinds of drugs.

    But this is about marijuana...and you are playing the boogeyman and insinuating it's going to lead to a complete breakdown in society. And that argument is completely illogical. If that were true, this country would have imploded from all the heroin, crack, and meth long ago.
    there is the social impact for you, and as for the moral impact, i guess that is more of a personal belief your right.
    Back at ya.

    here is a statistic..


    There have been over 7,000 published scientific and medical studies documenting the damage that marijuana poses. Not one study has shown marijuana to be safe.

    "Marijuanaaddiction.info"
    Cup cakes are not safe. Mountain Dew is not safe. Oxycontin is not safe. All are legal. But when the user throws responsibility out the window and abuses the substance, whatever it is, there are potentially bad results.

    Let's get to the real reason you don't blindly reject all the studies that prove the medical benefits of marijuana and go on to vilify it like it's Satan incarnate.

    The problem is not the herb, the problem is your inability to cope with the decisions your loved ones made and the impact those decisions had on you personally. I've been there.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 07-25-09 at 04:56 PM.
    *insert profound statement here*

  8. #38
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    The notion that marijuana use would increase if legalized is not supported by any relevant studies on the subject. Please see this post for details.
    I actually have an issue. If even one person who didn't smoke because of the illegality of weed decided to try it after it was legalized, then legalization increased the usage of marijuana.

    But here the thing...WHO CARES? If usage goes up 10 percent...so what? Somebody relaxing with friends and smoking some bud is much better all around than a bar full of raging drunks.

    I hope it does increase usage. A large portion of society enjoys getting intoxicated in some way...let's face it, the reasons are many, but the desire is there. In my career as a cop I never ONCE fought a stoner. I fought countless drunks and meth users.

    Let the people have their herb.
    *insert profound statement here*

  9. #39
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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Roth View Post
    do you honestly believe that the benefits that Marijuana has some some conditions out weigh its risks?
    Yes.
    If I have cancer and am undergoing chemotherapy, I think that the risks would be far outweighed by the benefits.
    YMMV.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama's drug czar: Marijuana 'has no medical benefit'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    In my career as a cop I never ONCE fought a stoner.
    LOL hahaha

    He was prob'ly gonna fight you later when he was finished doing whatever he wasn't doing. Just not right now--didn't want to kill his buzz.

    very funny
    I may be wrong.

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