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Thread: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Just in case you don't know, being a sperm donor and being a REAL FATHER are two entirely different things.
    My Point EXACTLY. Glad you caught on. The fact is....APDSt has been trying to argue for the last 14 pages that being a sperm donor makes one uniquely qualified to comment on parenting.

    The fact is....just because you are a "parent" doesn't mean that you are a good one and any more qualified to comment on issues regarding children than anyone else.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Of course. If some private citizens have an agenda you don't like that makes it okay for you to propagate your counter-agenda via the public school system. Nothing wrong with a little moral indoctrination by the government, nothing at all.
    Teaching that race, ethnicity, gender, and yes, pratitioners of homosexuality deserve equal rights and privileges - if that constitutes 'a little moral indoctrination by the government', then color me fully in favor of it. I assume by your sarcastic reply that you favor either teaching that nobody is deserving of equal rights and privileges, or that you disagree with one particular group being included, in which case you're pretty much the poster child of why I support such a manuever. I have zero problem with equality being taught in our classrooms. And if I may be so bold, neither should you.
    Last edited by Singularity; 07-28-09 at 11:42 PM.

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Teaching that race, ethnicity, gender, and yes, pratitioners of homosexuality deserve equal rights and privileges - if that constitutes 'a little moral indoctrination by the government', then color me fully in favor of it. I assume by your sarcastic reply that you favor either teaching that nobody is deserving of equal rights and privileges, or that you disagree with one particular group being included, in which case you're pretty much the poster child of why I support such a manuever. I have zero problem with equality being taught in our classrooms. And if I may be so bold, neither should you.
    I think public schools should abstain from moral commentary altogether, but that probably just makes me an evil homophobe or something.

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I think public schools should abstain from moral commentary altogether, but that probably just makes me an evil homophobe or something.
    No, you're certainly no homophobe for saying such a thing. But children are most certainly going to ask about differences in people. As a teacher, you can't just brush those off, nor should you. Equality should be taught, and furthermore, to a degree it is taught. No teacher advocates that a black individual is somehow not equal to a white one, or that women are lesser than men when questions are asked. I propose adding sexual orientation to this list, if it isn't done already. I would be perfectly happy having a set time in a public school curriculum to teach children about such things as equality and acceptance. And if you think that it shouldn't be taught at school, then you certainly advocate teaching your child about equality and acceptance at home.

    Now, if you think that it's acceptable to teach your child that homosexuality is abnormal and homosexuals are lesser citizens, then that's where the problem comes in. It's the same problem I have with folks teaching their children racism, or that women are unequal. It's because of such backwards teachings that organizations like Exodus Internation exist to begin with. The goal of every rational human being is to see organizations like that fade away, and those of a different race, gender, and sexual orientation to be accepted equally by everyone.
    Last edited by Singularity; 07-29-09 at 10:05 AM.

  5. #155
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    No, you're certainly no homophobe for saying such a thing. But children are most certainly going to ask about differences in people. As a teacher, you can't just brush those off, nor should you.
    Any other moral or social agendas you'd like teachers to address? Perhaps they could talk about the importance of abstinence and virtue? How about honesty and fidelity?

    Equality should be taught, and furthermore, to a degree it is taught. No teacher advocates that a black individual is somehow not equal to a white one, or that women are lesser than men when questions are asked.
    Teachers should advocate nothing but the facts. Moral commentary should be left up to parents, period. You seem to think people are too dumb to arrive at the correct conclusion without the assistance of some benevolent social order.

    What gives you the right to push your moral and social agenda onto other people's children? Just because you cite "tolerance" as a pretext to this indoctrination does nothing to change the fact that you're engaging in social engineering via government proxy. Any "liberal" should find such a prospect highly disturbing.

    I propose adding sexual orientation to this list, if it isn't done already. I would be perfectly happy having a set time in a public school curriculum to teach children about such things as equality and acceptance. And if you think that it shouldn't be taught at school, then you certainly advocate teaching your child about equality and acceptance at home.
    How about, instead of forcing your agenda on people via the government, you start a private organization which aims to educate and enlighten through choice?

    Now, if you think that it's acceptable to teach your child that homosexuality is abnormal and homosexuals are lesser citizens, then that's where the problem comes in.
    It doesn't matter what you or I think is acceptable. This is SUPPOSED to be a free country. Just because you percieve some kind of problem doesn't give you the right to rectify it by indoctrinating people's children via government proxy.

    It's the same problem I have with folks teaching their children racism, or that women are unequal. It's because of such backwards teachings that organizations like Exodus Internation exist to begin with. The goal of every rational human being is to see organizations like that fade away, and those of a different race, gender, and sexual orientation to be accepted equally by everyone.
    I don't agree with your conception of "equality". I think it is a false and intellectually shallow concept propagated by elitists and ate up by the useful idiots in Hollywood and the media. A nonsensical, feel-good abstraction that does nothing to explain truth or reality. So, just because you think "equality" is the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean you should force such a conception on other people's children.

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Any other moral or social agendas you'd like teachers to address? Perhaps they could talk about the importance of abstinence and virtue? How about honesty and fidelity?
    If teaching equality and acceptance for all constitutes a social agenda, then it's a social agenda we should all be in support of. Unless, of course, you believe that equality and acceptance is wrong, in which case your argument should focus on why you believe such things to be true, rather than touting what i've advocated somehow constitutes a negative agenda. Rest assured, it most certainly is not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Teachers should advocate nothing but the facts. Moral commentary should be left up to parents, period. You seem to think people are too dumb to arrive at the correct conclusion without the assistance of some benevolent social order.

    Moral commentary should not only be part of a school's agenda, but for the most part it already is to some degree. It may not be taught as a class, but teachers and faculty most certainly practice and endorse it, as well they should. When they do not, it usually makes the headlines and those faculty are either reprimanded or fired. I imagine you have no problem with teaching that all people are equal based on race, gender, or ethnic background; indeed, children are taught that we are all equal regardless of such history, and this should include sexual orientation as well.

    In addition, children are disciplined if they act out against a fellow student. While it used to be acceptable at certain points in our history to belittle those of another race, it longer goes unpunished. The same should be true in regards to individuals who are homosexual. If children are belittling some child who is homosexual, or physically assaulting him, they shouldn't be allowed to go unpunished for such a thing. By failing to teach 'moral commentary' as you say, that's basically advocating that such behavior should go unpunished. After all, if you believe that homosexuality is wrong or unacceptable, you certainly don't advocate equality for them, which means you're teaching your child that, which means he'll act on it in some way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    What gives you the right to push your moral and social agenda onto other people's children? Just because you cite "tolerance" as a pretext to this indoctrination does nothing to change the fact that you're engaging in social engineering via government proxy. Any "liberal" should find such a prospect highly disturbing.
    You assume that the teaching of equality and acceptance is some sort of a negative indoctrination, and that you and others of the same mindset reserve the right to teach your children hatred and bigotry. When that happens, it no longer becomes your issue; it becomes mine and everyone else's as well. Why? Because sooner or later your child will act out on what he's been taught, and if he has been mistakenly taught that homosexuality is 'wrong' or that homosexuals are undeserving of equality, chances are he'll lash out in one way or another. It may be something as minor as verbal abuse (and i'm using minor relatively here). Or it may be a physical altercation. Or it may be something much worse.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    How about, instead of forcing your agenda on people via the government, you start a private organization which aims to educate and enlighten through choice?
    In other words, if you wish to teach your child that homosexuality is wrong, and that races, genders, and ethnicities other than your own are undeserving of equality, then you should have the right to do so. Furthermore, he/she should not even have the opposing viewpoint of equality from their school. Is this what you are saying?

    Well, I disagree. It's because of backwards views like this that Exodus Internation exists to begin with. While I would be perfectly happy with a private organization opposed to something as radical and silly as Exodus International's backward agenda, the best way to eliminate such organizations to begin with is to educate our children on equality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It doesn't matter what you or I think is acceptable. This is SUPPOSED to be a free country. Just because you percieve some kind of problem doesn't give you the right to rectify it by indoctrinating people's children via government proxy.
    Again, you are mistakenly subscribing to the notion that education on equality somehow equals negative indoctrination. This simply isn't the case; in fact I believe the opposite to be true - lack of education here is the negative, because that leaves the child at the mercy of hate-based indoctrination. You would have an argument if there weren't people and organizations who actively seek to propagandize people against those who they believe to be inferior based on the arbitrary reasons of race, gender, and yes, sexual orientation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    I don't agree with your conception of "equality". I think it is a false and intellectually shallow concept propagated by elitists and ate up by the useful idiots in Hollywood and the media. A nonsensical, feel-good abstraction that does nothing to explain truth or reality. So, just because you think "equality" is the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean you should force such a conception on other people's children.
    Whether you agree with it or not, the term 'equality' signifies a qualititative relationship between the factions I have mentioned above, and it is accepted to be true based on the very definition of the word. Philosophically, equality has been considered a constitutive feature of justice for all rational, autonomous beings for ages, yet it's not always been practiced. If you disagree with equality for certain distributions of people - something your post seems to imply - then you are in the precarious position of being morally bankrupt. If, however, you do not, I assume you have no problem with the fact that it should be embraced. And by embracing it, you have no problem with it being taught.

    The fact that you seem to rebel against the notion of equality as some sort of subjective tenet that I devised leaves me wondering if, in fact, you do believe that something is wrong with homosexuality, and those that practice it may not be deserving of equality. Do you believe homosexuality should be accepted, and are homosexuals deserved of the very equality i've been talking about?

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Teaching that race, ethnicity, gender, and yes, pratitioners of homosexuality deserve equal rights and privileges - if that constitutes 'a little moral indoctrination by the government', then color me fully in favor of it. I assume by your sarcastic reply that you favor either teaching that nobody is deserving of equal rights and privileges, or that you disagree with one particular group being included, in which case you're pretty much the poster child of why I support such a manuever. I have zero problem with equality being taught in our classrooms. And if I may be so bold, neither should you.
    I believe that schools should stick to the 3 R's and leave it at that. Schools are there to teach children how to think, not what to think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I believe that schools should stick to the 3 R's and leave it at that. Schools are there to teach children how to think, not what to think.
    This is the first time that we have agreed on something. Must be a blue moon tonight.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    This is the first time that we have agreed on something. Must be a blue moon tonight.
    Time to go get drunk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Time to go get drunk.
    Second thing we agree on!

    *grabs the Maker's and Beefeater*
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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