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Thread: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

  1. #131
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's 100% true, when I'm being told that my parental reactions are wrong by someone whose never had a kid.

    If I were talking about beating my kid, there may be some credibility there, but when I'm talking about protecting my kid from harm, or from harmful influences, someone who isn't a parent doesn't have enough credibility in that arena to tell me I'm wrong.
    Unfortunately for you, your position has just been plain wrong from the get-go here. You started out making the claim that you are free to act irrationally when it comes to your child in a public arena such as a school, whereupon I pointed out that no, you are not. Not unless you wish to be arrested, as that sort of behavior can be construed as a definite threat to the safety of children and faculty.

    Having been shown the textbook definition of irrational, rather than admit that perhaps you chose your particular vocabulary unwisely, you then proceed to make the claim that one's perspective is sufficient to change said textbook definition, which is another error. Definitions do not change due to circumstance or perception; acting irrationally in a public school is acting irrationally regardless of whether or not one is a parent.

    Assuming you wish to continue this long-defeated argument, you'll need to provide some sort of proof that definitions change under such circumstances - something I doubt you'd be capable of doing, simply because it's linguistically impossible. Of course, anything can happen. Maybe you can get millions of English-speaking individuals to suddenly switch definitions of words like 'irrational' based on whether or not you are a parent. If so, I humbly request that you change the words 'ninja' and 'pirate' to 'rattlesnake' and 'pteradactyle', respectively. I'm getting tired of the old internet debate about which is better between the two, and it would be nice to see some webpages designed for moms and dads dealing with the proverbial rattlesnake and pteradactyle fight.

    Besides, ninjas and pirates are last year's pink!
    Last edited by Singularity; 07-28-09 at 09:00 PM.

  2. #132
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's 100% true, when I'm being told that my parental reactions are wrong by someone whose never had a kid.
    I don't believe anyone has told you your parental reactions are wrong. You've been told those reactions are irrational. An overwhelming instinct to protect a child from perceived danger is not necessarily wrong, though at times it may be partly or entirely irrational based on the true nature of the threat.

    If I were talking about beating my kid, there may be some credibility there, but when I'm talking about protecting my kid from harm, or from harmful influences, someone who isn't a parent doesn't have enough credibility in that arena to tell me I'm wrong.
    We're back to the same fallacy. If you haven't walked in my shoes you have no credibility.

    You could and have used that fallacy in other threads as well. It's no more valid here than anywhere else.

    It's no more valid than the argument that white folks don't have credibility to debate racism. Or that men don't have credibility to discuss abortion. Or that civilians don't have credibility discussing military policy.

    Fallacious.


  3. #133
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I don't believe anyone has told you your parental reactions are wrong. You've been told those reactions are irrational. An overwhelming instinct to protect a child from perceived danger is not necessarily wrong, though at times it may be partly or entirely irrational based on the true nature of the threat.



    We're back to the same fallacy. If you haven't walked in my shoes you have no credibility.

    You could and have used that fallacy in other threads as well. It's no more valid here than anywhere else.

    It's no more valid than the argument that white folks don't have credibility to debate racism. Or that men don't have credibility to discuss abortion. Or that civilians don't have credibility discussing military policy.

    Fallacious.

    Obviously, you haven't read Singularity's posts.

    Kindly allow me to quote Singularity:

    Unfortunately for you, your position has just been plain wrong from the get-go here. You started out making the claim that you are free to act irrationally when it comes to your child in a public arena such as a school, whereupon I pointed out that no, you are not. Not unless you wish to be arrested, as that sort of behavior can be construed as a definite threat to the safety of children and faculty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #134
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The fact of birthing a child or even raising a child does not in any way mean that you have greater experience or knowledge on topics involving children.
    What an astonishingly erroneous statement.

    There are bad parents, there are mediocre parents, and there are good parents, yes. There are those who have put enormous thought and effort into their parenting, and there are those who have not.

    However to make a blanket declaration that raising a child does not mean you have more experience in topics about children than (most of) those who never have, makes no sense.

    The difference is between theoretical knowlege and actual hands-on experience.

    For example, you can spend four years at Tech studying engine mechanics, and be well-versed in the theory of automotive repair. Until you get some practical experience, Joe Somebody who never went to Tech but has spent twenty years as a professional mechanic still has far more actual experience and ability than you do...because yours is mostly theory.

    Until you've actually taken the water pump off a '68 Thunderbird, there are things you aren't going to quite "get" no matter how much you've read on the subject.

    If you've spent twenty years as a guidance councelor at a middle school, you probably know things about school, the way children function and behave at school, and related topics than Average Parent. If you don't have children yourself, there will still be aspects of parenting that you probably don't "get", from lack of experience.

    If you're a child therapist you might know more about some aspects of children's issues than Average Parent. If you also have three kids of your own, your opinion will carry a LOT more weight with me than otherwise.

    If you're a Rhodes Scholar in Mathmatics, I'm not going to debate you on Fermi's Paradox. However, you can calculate until your brain overheats, but I still know better how many forty-foot ceiling joists will fit on a 10-ton pig truck and make to the jobsite, because I spent a few years making a living loading trucks. Another case where theory doesn't beat experience.


    I'll grant you the right to an opinion. Your opinion may even be a well-informed and well-thought-out one. It may be worth listening to. But to fail to note the difference that having actually done something makes is to ignore the entire worth of experience.


    Hell, pretty much any 14 year old can father or give birth to a child.
    Just in case you don't know, being a sperm donor and being a REAL FATHER are two entirely different things.

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  5. #135
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Obviously, you haven't read Singularity's posts.

    Kindly allow me to quote Singularity:
    I did read Singularity's previous posts, thanks.

    Now you're skirting the issue and changing the subject, which is another neat trick on message boards.

    The point of my post is that those with children have no particular moral or intellectual authority when debating issues about child-rearing. We all bring our own life experiences to the forum. Some of us have children. Others don't. Some of us live in the city. Others in rural areas. Some of us are young. Others are old. Some are men. Some are women. Some are fat. Some are thin.

    You've made the argument in this thread and in others that whole segments of the forum simply aren't qualified to participate in certain discussions based on their life experiences, or lack of them.

    That's just wrong. And that was my point.


  6. #136
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I did read Singularity's previous posts, thanks.

    Now you're skirting the issue and changing the subject, which is another neat trick on message boards.

    The point of my post is that those with children have no particular moral or intellectual authority when debating issues about child-rearing. We all bring our own life experiences to the forum. Some of us have children. Others don't. Some of us live in the city. Others in rural areas. Some of us are young. Others are old. Some are men. Some are women. Some are fat. Some are thin.

    You've made the argument in this thread and in others that whole segments of the forum simply aren't qualified to participate in certain discussions based on their life experiences, or lack of them.

    That's just wrong. And that was my point.


    I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, for two reasons. 1) A parent does have moral authority when expressing opinions on child rearing. That's the reason that I reserve my opinions on abortion and gay marriage. It doesn't affect me, it won't ever affect me, I can't see things from that perspective, so I steer clear of those arguments.

    2) I don't think that I've ever told anyone that they're not qualified to participate in a discussion, because of their life experiences, or lack there of. What I have done, is to point out one of two things, their wrong to tell me how wrong I am, because they haven't walked a mile in my shoes and secondly, their opinion is flawed, because they can't see things from the correct perspective. They perfectly qualified to express their opinons and I'm perfectly qualified to tell them why I disagree. I think that's why they call it, "debate".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #137
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, for two reasons. 1) A parent does have moral authority when expressing opinions on child rearing. That's the reason that I reserve my opinions on abortion and gay marriage. It doesn't affect me, it won't ever affect me, I can't see things from that perspective, so I steer clear of those arguments.

    2) I don't think that I've ever told anyone that they're not qualified to participate in a discussion, because of their life experiences, or lack there of. What I have done, is to point out one of two things, their wrong to tell me how wrong I am, because they haven't walked a mile in my shoes and secondly, their opinion is flawed, because they can't see things from the correct perspective. They perfectly qualified to express their opinons and I'm perfectly qualified to tell them why I disagree. I think that's why they call it, "debate".
    I think this statement clears up your position a bit. I get the impression that you realize that perhaps saying that you have the right to act irrationally at a school was probably a poor choice of words. Sternly or even confrontationally, let's go with that instead, in which case I think most folks on this thread would agree with you. If you feel that your child was being taught about homosexuality in school - something you don't agree with - then I would assume you would be upset. Anyone would in your position provided they disagreed with the teaching. But irrational? I don't think you'd just chuck your mental facilities out the window, head up to the local school, and just go crazy.

    Or at least let's hope not...
    Last edited by Singularity; 07-28-09 at 10:39 PM.

  8. #138
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, for two reasons. 1) A parent does have moral authority when expressing opinions on child rearing.
    Interesting argument.

    So let me ask you, who has more moral authority in a discussion of teaching children about homosexuality? A conservative parent who teaches homosexuality is wrong based on religious teaching? A liberal parent who teaches that homosexuality is normal and should be accepted? A lesbian mother? A single straight man with no children? A single gay man with no children? Or a single gay man with an adopted child?


  9. #139
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I think this statement clears up your position a bit. I get the impression that you realize that perhaps saying that you have the right to act irrationally at a school was probably a poor choice of words. Sternly or even confrontationally, let's go with that instead, in which case I think most folks on this thread would agree with you. If you feel that your child was being taught about homosexuality in school - something you don't agree with - then I would assume you would be upset. Anyone would in your position provided they disagreed with the teaching. But irrational? I don't think you'd just chuck your mental facilities out the window, head up to the local school, and just go crazy.

    Or at least let's hope not...
    I think very confrontational would be most accurate, I believe.

    Would I head up to the local school house and go crazy? Well, that would all depend on why I was headed to the school house, to begin with. I mean, I've done it before. For the right reasons, I would do it again. If I feel like one of my kids are danger, you can count on it happening.
    Last edited by apdst; 07-28-09 at 10:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #140
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Interesting argument.

    So let me ask you, who has more moral authority in a discussion of teaching children about homosexuality? A conservative parent who teaches homosexuality is wrong based on religious teaching? A liberal parent who teaches that homosexuality is normal and should be accepted? A lesbian mother? A single straight man with no children? A single gay man with no children? Or a single gay man with an adopted child?

    In a word? The PARENT has 100% of the moral authority to teach his/her kid(s) about homosexuality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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