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Thread: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

  1. #121
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by thrashers View Post
    Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the tactic your current opponent is using, (browbeating someone over one particular usage of a word) I do feel an urge to step in here, because I am a parent.
    There's no browbeating going on in this thread. We communicate here through the written word, so if you write something along the lines of "I can go act irrationally at a school and not get arrested for it because it's my right to do so", then make the claim that the term 'irrational' definitively changes based on one's perspective, that's not being subjected to browbeating. That's just being flat-out incorrect. If you meant something different, you should write something different.

    In my defense, I even told him that I would assume his previous usage was not what he meant to say in post #110 on this thread, when I said, "i'll assume your previous posts were overblown and your choice of vernacular was badly chosen, if your last post was what you really meant to say." This was in turn followed by his defense of the term's use and a rather accusatory query that I may be changing the definition to suit my argument.

    Regardless, my point stands. Any adult acting irrationally at a public school will at the least be escorted off the premises if they are very lucky; most of the time, they'll simply be arrested. Please keep in mind that I am using the term 'irrational' as per the actual definition of the word. But since I am a rather generous fellow, I will certainly give my opponent the benefit of the doubt once again, and assume that his choice of wording in post #101 was a simple bad selection of vocabulary.
    Last edited by Singularity; 07-28-09 at 10:12 AM.

  2. #122
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Singularity;1058159595]Nice try. Definitions of words do not change based on perspective. But let's put this to the test and take the very word that seems to be giving you the most trouble in this thread - irrational.

    The definition of irrational (irrational definition | Dictionary.com)

    1. without the faculty of reason; deprived of reason.
    2. without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment.
    3. not in accordance with reason; utterly illogical: irrational arguments.
    4. not endowed with the faculty of reason: irrational animals.
    5. Mathematics. a. (of a number) not capable of being expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers.
    b. (of a function) not capable of being expressed exactly as a ratio of two polynomials.

    6. Algebra. (of an equation) having an unknown under a radical sign or, alternately, with a fractional exponent.
    7. Greek and Latin Prosody. a. of or pertaining to a substitution in the normal metrical pattern, esp. a long syllable for a short one.
    b. noting a foot or meter containing such a substitution.

    1. The definition of irrational from the perspective of those who do not have children:

    1. without the faculty of reason; deprived of reason.
    2. without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment.
    3. not in accordance with reason; utterly illogical: irrational arguments.
    4. not endowed with the faculty of reason: irrational animals.
    5. Mathematics. a. (of a number) not capable of being expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers.
    b. (of a function) not capable of being expressed exactly as a ratio of two polynomials.

    6. Algebra. (of an equation) having an unknown under a radical sign or, alternately, with a fractional exponent.
    7. Greek and Latin Prosody. a. of or pertaining to a substitution in the normal metrical pattern, esp. a long syllable for a short one.
    b. noting a foot or meter containing such a substitution.

    2. The definition of irrational from the perspective of who do have children:

    1. without the faculty of reason; deprived of reason.
    2. without or deprived of normal mental clarity or sound judgment.
    3. not in accordance with reason; utterly illogical: irrational arguments.
    4. not endowed with the faculty of reason: irrational animals.
    5. Mathematics. a. (of a number) not capable of being expressed exactly as a ratio of two integers.
    b. (of a function) not capable of being expressed exactly as a ratio of two polynomials.

    6. Algebra. (of an equation) having an unknown under a radical sign or, alternately, with a fractional exponent.
    7. Greek and Latin Prosody. a. of or pertaining to a substitution in the normal metrical pattern, esp. a long syllable for a short one.
    b. noting a foot or meter containing such a substitution.


    Conclusion: The definition is unchanged regardless of how many children one has

    So, about that perspective issue...the definitions still look the same to me. How about you?
    Life isn't defined by a dictionary.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    This has always been my least favorite poor response on message boards. It's used in all sorts of discussions... 'You can't make an informed opinion on abortion unless you're a woman!' 'You can't understand racism unless you're a minority!' 'You have no business debating gays in the military unless you've served in a combat unit!'

    And on and on it goes...


    Well, we're talking about the difference between parent's and non parent's. Anyone who has a kid, even an adopted kid, can tell you your perspective changes dramatically after you become a parent. I know mine did.




    Quote Originally Posted by thrashers View Post
    Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the tactic your current opponent is using, (browbeating someone over one particular usage of a word) I do feel an urge to step in here, because I am a parent.

    I've raised or am helping raise 7 kids. (no, not the goat kinds)

    And yeah, had I been in the position of thinking there was a molester working at any of my children's schools, I'd of been up there behaving all kinds of irrationally. <-----chose that word on purpose.

    However....when it comes to matters of curriculum and such, I've always rather believed that unless they are teaching any of my children to rise up against the US, or that 2+2 is suddenly 19 and gravity means things fall in an upwards fashion...
    I've got the option of influencing my child better at home than the teacher does and if I go make a loud noise unto the teacher/principal or school board,it might in fact intrigue my child so much that they'd become more interested in something than I'd otherwise like.

    Plus, since I'd of made a big ol' stink about it---they'd know I didn't like it and try and hide it from me.

    My two cents.

    That and about 5 more dollars and you can have Starbucks!
    I agree with all of that, except that I don't like Starbucks. The original comment I was referring to was about teaching homosexuality in public schools. The classroom is no place for that and it would motivate me to show up at school raising hell about it.
    Last edited by apdst; 07-28-09 at 10:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #123
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, we're talking about the difference between parent's and non parent's. Anyone who has a kid, even an adopted kid, can tell you your perspective changes dramatically after you become a parent. I know mine did.
    I understand quite well how our perspectives differ based on our life experiences. I've seen my brother, sister, and many friends become totally irrational in response to matters involving their kids. I'm certain other parents and non-parents can relate to that perspective. The perspective of witnessing otherwise rational adults turn into pin-headed lunatics when it comes to their own children.

    As it happens, your previous post implied that those without kids can't legitimately engage in discussion about certain issues on this forum because of their lack of appropriate 'perspective.'

    My experience would seem to lead me to exactly the opposite conclusion. However, I'll give most parents the benefit of the doubt and assume they can put their prejudices aside while posting on this forum.

    Last edited by Grateful Heart; 07-28-09 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #124
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Life isn't defined by a dictionary.
    Actually it is: life definition | Dictionary.com

    And yeah, so is irrational.

  5. #125
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Forgive me father, for I have sinned: Sometimes I enjoy feeding trolls.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  6. #126
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, we're talking about the difference between parent's and non parent's. Anyone who has a kid, even an adopted kid, can tell you your perspective changes dramatically after you become a parent. I know mine did.
    Time for me to stick my two bits in again.

    I know the "you can't understand X unless you're Y" argument is tedious and annoying...but there is some element of truth in it. That's not to say that you can't have an opinion, or even that your opinion cannot be informed...but rather that you may not understand the emotional context of something if you haven't experienced it.

    As a young man, I had two nieces who I played "substitute daddy" to. It was good for them and for me, and to this day I love them both dearly. It wasn't quite the same though, as when I had my own child that I raised from infancy. There is a difference, and it is hard to explain to those who don't have children. There is something primal in the brain that just wants to go haywire at any percieved threat to one's children, and while it is possible to control it most of the time, it is also not easy. It's also something that non-parents can probably imagine, but not really understand on a gut level.

    So while I wouldn't want to overplay the "until you X you can't understand" argument, there is some validity to it in some life experiences.



    I agree with all of that, except that I don't like Starbucks. The original comment I was referring to was about teaching homosexuality in public schools. The classroom is no place for that and it would motivate me to show up at school raising hell about it.
    Yeah, I'd have a hard time staying calm about that too. I'd try, but it wouldn't be easy.

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Time for me to stick my two bits in again.

    I know the "you can't understand X unless you're Y" argument is tedious and annoying...but there is some element of truth in it. That's not to say that you can't have an opinion, or even that your opinion cannot be informed...but rather that you may not understand the emotional context of something if you haven't experienced it.

    As a young man, I had two nieces who I played "substitute daddy" to. It was good for them and for me, and to this day I love them both dearly. It wasn't quite the same though, as when I had my own child that I raised from infancy. There is a difference, and it is hard to explain to those who don't have children. There is something primal in the brain that just wants to go haywire at any percieved threat to one's children, and while it is possible to control it most of the time, it is also not easy. It's also something that non-parents can probably imagine, but not really understand on a gut level.

    So while I wouldn't want to overplay the "until you X you can't understand" argument, there is some validity to it in some life experiences.
    What gets tedious, is when people with zero experience in a certain experience tell me what's is, or isn't appropriate to that situation, when my own experience out distances their by a gazillion percent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #128
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    As it happens, your previous post implied that those without kids can't legitimately engage in discussion about certain issues on this forum because of their lack of appropriate 'perspective.'
    That's 100% true, when I'm being told that my parental reactions are wrong by someone whose never had a kid.

    If I were talking about beating my kid, there may be some credibility there, but when I'm talking about protecting my kid from harm, or from harmful influences, someone who isn't a parent doesn't have enough credibility in that arena to tell me I'm wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #129
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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What gets tedious, is when people with zero experience in a certain experience tell me what's is, or isn't appropriate to that situation, when my own experience out distances their by a gazillion percent.
    The fact of birthing a child or even raising a child does not in any way mean that you have greater experience or knowledge on topics involving children.
    Millions of horrible parents raise children every year. The fact that they had a child doesn't mean that they are in a unique situation to comment on matter involving children.

    Hell, pretty much any 14 year old can father or give birth to a child.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: 'Missing' Man Sought by Gay Pal Is Willingly Undergoing Counseling, Family Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Tase Me Bro View Post
    When was that exactly? They never located a so-called "gay gene" but they have never proved that homosexuality isn't something people are born with.
    That something has genetic origins does not require a single, specific gene to be responsible. Instead, a combination of genes, each with subtle differences, could work in tandem. In short, even as no specific gene has been identified to explain a person's sexuality, that does not disprove a genetic basis to a person's sexuality.

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