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Thread: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

  1. #21
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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I think Obama's meaning is being missed here by some literalists. I believe what he was saying is that in the War on Terror, there can never be a traditional victory, as we are not dealing with a state, but multiple terror groups working under one umbrella. How can one know if you have killed the last member of Al-Qaeda? They are spread throughout the world, without defined uniform, language, or even command. So the take home message is that the measure of victory in this struggle is different from conventional measures of victory.
    "So when you have a non-state actor, a shadowy operation like Al Qaeda, our goal is to make sure they can't attack the United States."
    There are two ways--and only two ways--to ensure that Al Qaeda can't use Afghanistan as a base from which to attack the US:

    1. Kill every Al Qaeda member, or at the very least every member of the leadership.
    2. Garrison troops in Afghanistan as a permanent occupying force from now until Judgment Day.

    The tone of the article suggests Dear Leader is more willing to accept the second than to attempt the first. Which means once again Dear Leader has the wrong goal.

    Endless defensive war is a poor substitute for victory which lets the troops come home. The goal in Afghanistan must be nothing less than exterminating Al Qaeda, exterminating the Taliban, so that matters can be turned over to the government in Kabul and that our troops can come home.

    Since a "non-state actor, a shadowy operation like Al Qaeda" has no diplomatic standing from which to proffer surrender, the strategy must proceed from the realization that Al Qaeda, like any other tribe of terrorist thugs, is never hors de combat--they chose a fight to the death, and so our troops' mission is to make sure the dying is on them and not on us.

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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    President Obama has put securing Afghanistan near the top of his foreign policy agenda, but "victory" in the war-torn country isn't necessarily the United States' goal, he said Thursday in a TV interview.

    "I'm always worried about using the word 'victory,' because, you know, it invokes this notion of Emperor Hirohito coming down and signing a surrender to MacArthur," Obama told ABC News.

    The enemy facing U.S. and Afghan forces isn't so clearly defined, he explained.

    "We're not dealing with nation states at this point. We're concerned with Al Qaeda and the Taliban, Al Qaeda's allies," he said. "So when you have a non-state actor, a shadowy operation like Al Qaeda, our goal is to make sure they can't attack the United States."
    Afghanistan is unwinnable. Victory is impossible. The soviets couldn't take them out, we have no chance. We have less soldiers and weapons and they have gone more crazy.

    At least he has a pragmatic and reachable goal. Beats trying to grasp the impossible 'defeat Al Qaeda'. No one can defeat a ideology.


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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Afghanistan is unwinnable. Victory is impossible. The soviets couldn't take them out, we have no chance. We have less soldiers and weapons and they have gone more crazy.

    At least he has a pragmatic and reachable goal. Beats trying to grasp the impossible 'defeat Al Qaeda'. No one can defeat a ideology.



    Such a defeatist attitude, we are not the Soviets, and the soviets are not arming the other side.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    There are two ways--and only two ways--to ensure that Al Qaeda can't use Afghanistan as a base from which to attack the US:

    1. Kill every Al Qaeda member, or at the very least every member of the leadership.
    2. Garrison troops in Afghanistan as a permanent occupying force from now until Judgment Day.

    The tone of the article suggests Dear Leader is more willing to accept the second than to attempt the first. Which means once again Dear Leader has the wrong goal.

    Endless defensive war is a poor substitute for victory which lets the troops come home. The goal in Afghanistan must be nothing less than exterminating Al Qaeda, exterminating the Taliban, so that matters can be turned over to the government in Kabul and that our troops can come home.

    Since a "non-state actor, a shadowy operation like Al Qaeda" has no diplomatic standing from which to proffer surrender, the strategy must proceed from the realization that Al Qaeda, like any other tribe of terrorist thugs, is never hors de combat--they chose a fight to the death, and so our troops' mission is to make sure the dying is on them and not on us.

    Didn't your dear leader already claim Victory in Iraq and Afghanistan.....
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Didn't your dear leader already claim Victory in Iraq and Afghanistan.....
    President Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" when major military operations had removed Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq--which they had. What Bush failed to acknowledge and perhaps realize was the challenge of "winning the peace" that would follow.

    Don't recall President Bush ever declaring "victory" in Afghanistan. Have you a link stating he did?

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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    At least he has a pragmatic and reachable goal.
    What goal?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    What goal?
    our goal is to make sure they can't attack the United States.

    10 characters


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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    President Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" when major military operations had removed Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq--which they had. What Bush failed to acknowledge and perhaps realize was the challenge of "winning the peace" that would follow.

    Don't recall President Bush ever declaring "victory" in Afghanistan. Have you a link stating he did?

    Didn't he claim Victory by stopping to look for those that attacked us on 911 and instead focus all of our resources and try to link Iraq with 911.

    Oh...I forgot. GWB never did anything wrong in your mind.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Didn't he claim Victory by stopping to look for those that attacked us on 911 and instead focus all of our resources and try to link Iraq with 911.

    Oh...I forgot. GWB never did anything wrong in your mind.




    you are speaking nonsense again.
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    Re: Obama: 'Victory' Not Necessarily Goal in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by The silenced majority View Post
    If the goal of a military objective isn't "victory", what would you claim it to be?
    Deterrence.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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