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Thread: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You need to study the law.


    Seriously, I'll take Right's understanding of the law every minute of every day of every week over yours. Not only is it actually an informed and educated view of it but he's also routinely shown not to let his hyper partisan views blind him 99% of the time.

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    Re: Obama Surprised by Controversy Over Remark About Arrest of Black Scholar

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post


    Yeah, I'm a real submissive kinda guy.....NOT.

    I don't cower.....but I don't go full retard in a cop's face either. When dealing with the cops, I am a firm believer in exercising my right to remain silent. If Gates had done the same thing, he'd have avoided the nickel bracelet set.
    The factors of the Gates case aside (for objective purposes only), this is actually sage advice.

    Back to this case, while I don't believe Gates should have been arrested, I do believe his attitude was the dominant factor in escalating the clash of personalities. He should have shut his big mouth and not continued to bait the officer.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 07-24-09 at 11:09 AM.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Moderator's Warning:
    Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of GatesYes, another thread being de-railed and name calling ensues. Stay on topic, stop calling each other names and cease with the personal attacks.

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I thank you for the info, but /facepalm the PD in this case.


    The cop did nothing wrong. This is dinkins on a national scale.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Not the case at all. This wasn't just the prosecutor deciding to decline, the department issued a statement publicly acknowledging their missteps in this case.
    Link? Because this is the public statement of the department of which I am aware:

    The City of Cambridge and the Cambridge Police Department have recommended to the Middlesex County District Attorney that the criminal charge against Professor Gates not proceed. Therefore, in the interests of justice, the Middlesex County District Attorney’s Office has agreed to enter a nolle prosequi in this matter.

    The City of Cambridge, the Cambridge Police Department, and Professor Gates acknowledge that the incident of July 16, 2009 was regrettable and unfortunate. This incident should not be viewed as one that demeans the character and reputation of Professor Gates or the character of the Cambridge Police Department. All parties agree that this is a just resolution to an unfortunate set of circumstances.
    Where in that statement is there admission of mistake?

    nolle prosequi is not an admission of mistake, merely a decision not to pursue the matter. Technically, the door is still open to pursuing the charges should the DA change his mind in the matter--granted, it's highly improbable, but it is not impossible.

    nolle prosequi (Anglo-American law) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

    When entered before trial, the nolle prosequi does not bar a subsequent prosecution on the basis of a new indictment or new information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    The elements of the crime that Gates was charged with were not met. The Massachusetts statute is quite clear that the offender has to have the purpose of alarming the public in order to be guilty of disorderly conduct (as it applies in this case based upon the officers report). That was not proven in this incident. The report was bush league. He tried to use a couple of catch phrases to satisfy the charge and it fell flat.
    This is certainly not a case of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, but a person standing outside shouting that a cop is a racist would be pretty damn alarming, I would think.

    Would the case stand up at trial? Perhaps. If Gates had stood out on his front step for an extended period of time shouting racist accusations at Sgt Crowley, that would certainly be alarming to the public and would arguably be disturbing the peace.

    However, the reality of the situation is that, for whatever reason, Gates lost his temper. If DAs prosecuted every person who lost their temper in public there would never be time to try rapists and murderers. Gates is not a frequent flyer at the county jail--he lost his cool. Even if he were technically guilty of disturbing the peace, how much good would be accomplished by taking the case to court? Crowley could have done everything right, including arresting Gates, and the proper response by the department and the DA could still be entering a nolle prosequi. Frankly, I don't see where Crowley did anything wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    If there was more to this case then the officer should have done a better job of documenting it. If you are going to charge a guy with tumultuous behavior that alarmed a group of citizens you had better damn well get one of the citizens to say they were alarmed, otherwise....0.
    Neither you nor I were there, so how much more there is to the case is purely speculation for us. My speculation is that Crowley properly investigated a report of a break-in at Gates' residence, Gates' improperly lost his cool at being asked for his ID to show he lived in that residence--necessary for Crowley to establish that there had been no crime committed--and Gates went too far in expressing his displeasure. That much is speculation, I freely acknowledge.

    However, this statement by Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert C. Haas to my mind suggests that my speculation is reasonably close to what those better informed agree took place:

    Haas described Sergeant James M. Crowley as a “stellar member’’ of the department who had “tried to deescalate the situation’’ before he arrested Gates last week on the porch of Gates’s Cambridge house. Haas emphatically said that Gates’s arrest was not racially tinged.

    “He [Crowley] tried to move away from the situation, and, when he wasn’t successful, he used arrest as a last resort,’’ Haas said at a packed news conference at police headquarters. “I do not believe his actions were in any way racially motivated.’’
    If Crowley screwed up, why would Haas be going this far in taking up for him?

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by metreon View Post
    It seems a bit of a stretch to arrest someone for disorderly conduct in their own home when that person exercises a legal right to verify the badge number of the police officer. Even if Gates was "uppity" about it, there is no law against being a jerk, since that right is protected by the 1st Amendment, especially in the privacy of one's own home.

    The presented facts are that when Gates let the police into his home, he did show them a couple of ID cards, license and Harvard ID (he lives in a Harvard house). Case closed. Unless there was a physical assault by Gates there would have been zero reason to arrest him. The case was fully dropped because it had no legal basis to proceed. That is the fact of the matter. Therefore the police officer acted stupidly, by definition, since he had no just cause for arrest.
    So Gates isn't responsible for his own actions? He didn't have to behave that way. He could have defused the whole situation by simply acting like an educated, respectable, intellectual. Two wrongs don't make a right! Mr. Gates had a choice. He chose poorly.

    Freedom comes with personal responsibility. Mr. Gates was not physically assaulted. He was in no danger. Had he acted in a calm, honorable manner. He would not have been arrested. If he felt he was wronged by the officer. He could have later filed a complaint. His reaction to the situation served no purpose other than to release his own anger and disgust.

    I don't feel he should have been arrested. I also know that he did not act in an honorable and intelligent manner. He let his anger get the best of him. He needlessly escalated an already unfortunate situation. As smart as he is supposed to be. I would expect him to understand that.

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by P/N View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of GatesYes, another thread being de-railed and name calling ensues. Stay on topic, stop calling each other names and cease with the personal attacks.
    Is it alright if I personally attack Gates? Because the guy is a ****ing racist. People have no respect for cops, it's a shame. I wouldn't want their job.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Link? Because this is the public statement of the department of which I am aware:

    Where in that statement is there admission of mistake?
    The police department spokesperson said this...
    In announcing that charges would be dropped Tuesday, police blamed both sides for escalating the conflict. "You had two human beings reacting to a set of circumstances and cooler heads did not prevail," said Cambridge police spokeswoman Kelly Downes.

    "It was not Professor Gates' best moment and it was not the Cambridge Police Department's best moment."

    "I think both parties were wrong. Our position is race did not play a factor."
    Right there.
    nolle prosequi is not an admission of mistake, merely a decision not to pursue the matter. Technically, the door is still open to pursuing the charges should the DA change his mind in the matter--granted, it's highly improbable, but it is not impossible.

    nolle prosequi (Anglo-American law) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia
    I know what nolle prosequi is, I never said that it was an admission of mistake. I said this more than "just" the DA dropping the charges. It was the police department publicly stating they were equally wrong in this incident.

    This is certainly not a case of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, but a person standing outside shouting that a cop is a racist would be pretty damn alarming, I would think.
    Well, I'm sure you would think that. I would probably think that as well. However police officers do not have the latitude to arrest people for crimes where there are no identifiable victims. He can't assume the public was alarmed, which he did, he has to prove someone in the public was actually alarmed.

    Would the case stand up at trial? Perhaps.
    No, not at all. I have several friends in both county prosecutors offices where I live and we talk often. I specifically asked two assistant prosecutors what they thought and while they think Gates is a complete douche bag they also agree with me Crowley did a poor job documenting his case and they would never take it to trial. Simply because there wasn't enough documentation of the necessary facts.

    If Gates had stood out on his front step for an extended period of time shouting racist accusations at Sgt Crowley, that would certainly be alarming to the public and would arguably be disturbing the peace.
    And the police would still be required to prove that someone in the public was actually alarmed. But please, let's not speculate on what crimes might have been charged if Gates had done this or that. Let's stick to what the report says, what the crime charged was, and the subsequent admission of wrong by the police department.

    However, the reality of the situation is that, for whatever reason, Gates lost his temper. If DAs prosecuted every person who lost their temper in public there would never be time to try rapists and murderers. Gates is not a frequent flyer at the county jail--he lost his cool. Even if he were technically guilty of disturbing the peace, how much good would be accomplished by taking the case to court? Crowley could have done everything right, including arresting Gates, and the proper response by the department and the DA could still be entering a nolle prosequi. Frankly, I don't see where Crowley did anything wrong.
    Fair enough.
    Neither you nor I were there, so how much more there is to the case is purely speculation for us. My speculation is that Crowley properly investigated a report of a break-in at Gates' residence, Gates' improperly lost his cool at being asked for his ID to show he lived in that residence--necessary for Crowley to establish that there had been no crime committed--and Gates went too far in expressing his displeasure. That much is speculation, I freely acknowledge.
    You are correct, we weren't there. I have formed my opinion based upon Crowley's report, the wording of the statute, and the subsequent actions of the DA and the police department.

    However, this statement by Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert C. Haas to my mind suggests that my speculation is reasonably close to what those better informed agree took place:

    If Crowley screwed up, why would Haas be going this far in taking up for him?
    Why would the police department also make this statement?
    In announcing that charges would be dropped Tuesday, police blamed both sides for escalating the conflict. "You had two human beings reacting to a set of circumstances and cooler heads did not prevail," said Cambridge police spokeswoman Kelly Downes.

    "It was not Professor Gates' best moment and it was not the Cambridge Police Department's best moment."

    "I think both parties were wrong. Our position is race did not play a factor."
    Things that make you go "hmmmm."
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Black officer at scholar's home supports arrest

    "CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (AP) — A black police officer who was at Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s home when the black Harvard scholar was arrested says he fully supports how his white fellow officer handled the situation.

    Sgt. Leon Lashley says Gates was probably tired and surprised when Sgt. James Crowley demanded identification from him as officers investigated a report of a burglary. Lashley says Gates' reaction to Crowley was "a little bit stranger than it should have been."

    Asked if Gates should have been arrested, Lashley said supported Crowley "100 percent.""

    I do not know if it matters to anyone but this officer was present and happens to be black.

    After hearing him speak I am starting to think Gates may have been prepping for his moment in the spotlight for quite some time.

    We should all hear tapes soon and will be able to make better informed decisions.

    Tapes May Tell Tale In Harvard Arrest


    "What we don't need is public safety officials across the country second-guessing themselves," Holway said. "The president's alienated public safety officers across the country with his comments."


    Anytime one makes extreme speculation without having the information. Especially on a national platform...it is likely not going to be a good outcome.

    I heard dear leaders polls just fell below the 50% level for approval..
    Thank you

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    Re: Obama Defends Criticism of Cambridge Police in Arrest of Gates

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    [URL="http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=10785654"]

    After hearing him speak I am starting to think Gates may have been prepping for his moment in the spotlight for quite some time.
    I was wondering where some students got this line from:







    Don't tase me, bro!








    Do students learn things from professors or it is other way around?









    What immature babies are - both Gates and Obama.
    Last edited by justone; 07-24-09 at 11:58 PM.

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