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Thread: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    Hello I read the op now what about the derivatives market what about all the debt that was sold off and now is worthless.
    Whos debt are you referring too? Once i have that info i can voice my opinion on this one..
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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTh!nk3r View Post
    Whos debt are you referring too? Once i have that info i can voice my opinion on this one..
    All the debt that was central to the entire banking and credit crisis. That's the debt I'm referring to. When you read about BofA taking over Merrill Lynch despite being trillions in the red, that's the kind of debt I'm talking about.
    Last edited by Liz Peeps; 07-23-09 at 05:01 AM.

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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    All the debt that was central to the entire banking and credit crisis. That's the debt I'm referring to.
    That makes no sense, because circumstances vary depending on the institution.
    You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.
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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTh!nk3r View Post
    That makes no sense, because circumstances vary depending on the institution.
    No, it was a system wide crisis. This was like just 9 or 10 months ago. It was HUGE news when it broke, here in America we had to make all kinds of financial arrangements to move those houses and save the banks to hopefully mitigate the damages done to America, everything we could do to maintain high home values. It was a system wide thing that was not limited to a single institution like you're saying.

    Think about it, how in the world do you think billion dollar firms get into TRILLIONS of debt?

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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    No, it was a system wide crisis. This was like just 9 or 10 months ago. It was HUGE news when it broke, here in America we had to make all kinds of financial arrangements to move those houses and save the banks to hopefully mitigate the damages done to America, everything we could do to maintain high home values. It was a system wide thing that was not limited to a single institution like you're saying.

    Think about it, how in the world do you think billion dollar firms get into TRILLIONS of debt?
    Debt wasnt exactly the only issue that drove the crisis. It was a combination of things from mismanagement, toxic loans, housing market bubble etc. There was a combination of issues that caused the crisis.

    Which firm are you referring to once again?
    You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.
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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTh!nk3r View Post
    Debt wasnt exactly the only issue that drove the crisis. It was a combination of things from mismanagement, toxic loans, housing market bubble etc. There was a combination of issues that caused the crisis.

    Which firm are you referring to once again?
    DEBT was smackdab at the CENTER of the crisis. How do you think a housing bubble would be possible without being able to sell off massive amounts of debt?

    The "toxic loans" are just a part of all the debt that I'm talking about. Firms were shuffling debt between themselves, it was like a game with musical chairs. And if you were caught with all the debt when the music stopped then you'd be in big trouble.

    "Mismanagement" in that you had people making these contracts and various special purpose entities for their clients only to have it all blow up in their face because it never made any sense in the first place.

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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    INSTANT VIEW: U.S. eases mark-to-market accounting | Reuters

    I talked about this before, essentially financials are now allowed to treat their toxic securities like Level 3 assets. Price them how they want, value them how they want and essentially ignore all reasonable accounting. The longer M2M is suspended, the bigger fraud we'll get in the future.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...ll-stupid.html
    Setting aside the problems with your position that were raised in that thread, I don't see anything indicating that banks like JPMorgan or GS are "only profitable because they don't have to mark their liabilities to market value," which was my objection to LP's statement.

    I very much doubt that M2M is the reason why GS turned a profit last quarter.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTh!nk3r View Post
    This is honestly one thing that i did agree with President Bush on. Both industries obtained the assistance that they so direly needed. We are already seeing returns on the bailouts made to the financial markets, and i have faith we will see the same in the auto industry.
    The difference is that the financial industry keeps adding value, as it has for decades, while the auto industry keeps sucking ass, as it has for decades.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I very much doubt that M2M is the reason why GS turned a profit last quarter.
    Then how did they do it? what happened to the emergency crisis of trillions of debt instruments that was bogging down their books.

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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz Peeps View Post
    Then how did they do it?
    IB, same way they made their other billions in every other quarter.

    what happened to the emergency crisis of trillions of debt instruments that was bogging down their books.
    link?
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    Re: Goldman's bailout earns $1.4bn profit for taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    IB, same way they made their other billions in every other quarter.
    .....which is?

    What role to do you think the derivatives market played in this crisis?

    link?[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, I don't have the energy or will right now to give you a primer on what happened, I'll let obvious child field this one if he feels like it. I'm you could find info on various sides of the argument if you google in "derivatives financial crisis"

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