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Thread: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

  1. #21
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTh!nk3r View Post
    So why are you objecting to the public option again? Certainly more Americans will be able to afford it as it is projected to be 30-40% cheaper than current private rates.
    Projections that fly in the face of reality--TennCare and Commonwealth Care (two state attempts at UHC) saw individual healthcare costs rise as a result of the programs.

    Additionally, anything funded by tax dollars is not "cheaper", merely better at hiding the costs. A public option has Congress standing at the ready to cut a check to cover any losses the public option might incur--a luxury private insurance companies do not get.

    Cost less? Not likely. Certainly not 30-40% less.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If the only thing that is changing is the government not profiting, then how can it possibly be 30-40% cheaper?
    That isnt the only thing changing. Far from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    1) Link?
    2) Where do you think those savings are coming from? Have you completely ignored the discussion about new taxes?
    View Appearance | C-SPAN Congressional Chronicle, Created by Cable. Offered as a Public Service.

    Cant find the other link with Kline atm ill keep looking for you though. When i say cheaper i am speaking of the cost of the plan to the end consumer not the cost overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Projections that fly in the face of reality--TennCare and Commonwealth Care (two state attempts at UHC) saw individual healthcare costs rise as a result of the programs.

    Additionally, anything funded by tax dollars is not "cheaper", merely better at hiding the costs. A public option has Congress standing at the ready to cut a check to cover any losses the public option might incur--a luxury private insurance companies do not get.

    Cost less? Not likely. Certainly not 30-40% less.
    Actually once again you are WRONG. What is the amount that will be subsidized by the feds for the public option? Ill wait.
    You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.
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  3. #23
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreeTh!nk3r View Post
    That isnt the only thing changing. Far from it.
    Your right but not in a good way.

    They are increasing access and not capping prices on what doctors, hospitals etc charge. The net effect can only be higher prices.

    So many people don't understand that it is impossible to offer unlimited medical care to everyone. You can't do it at all.
    There are not enough hospital beds, doctors, nurses everything to cover such a plan.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    I believe people would be really shocked if Der Fuhrer in Chief Obama were to tell the truth a second time. So far the only thing he didn't lie about was needing you Liberals help to wreck the country. When he clearly said, "Mar 15, 2008 ... "My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it".
    He claims he inherited the deficit Bush caused when TARP passed but the lying bum pushed it's passage. If this plan passes your insurance not will change it will go away and thousands will die as a direct result of the Obama Careless Death Plan. He's an anti American pro Islamic Socialist.
    His plans are sounding more and more like Geramany in the 30s and 40s.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It means you have a right to live as you choose. It does not mean you have a right to expect me to pay for you living as you choose.

    It means you have the right to all the healthcare you can afford. It means you have no right to the healthcare you cannot afford.
    So you only have as much of a right to life as you can afford? Doesn't sound inalienable to me.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    What do you think the inalienable right to life means? (let me guess....you think it just means a definition adopted by anti-abortion groups, right?)
    Rights are things you INHERENTLY have, not things the government must GIVE you. More to the point, the rights enumerated in the constitution and declaration of independence are ones in which it states the government can not take away from or limit you on.

    The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Speech. If we used your idiotic logic the federal government should have to pay for my cell phone and internet connection to be assured that I am able to freely speek in all ways possible.

    The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Religion. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be providing me with transportation to and from church services so I do not have any issues attending.

    The government does not need to GIVE me anything for the Right to Bare Arms. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be buying me guns, ammo, and paying for all the classes and liscenses they force me to buy.

    The government does not need to GIVE me anyhing for liberty, nor the persuit of happiness. What they need to do is not take things away from me.

    Your logic is flawed, worthless, and idiotic, but not most unsurprising of it all...hyper partisan. You hold it to a standard no other right that is bestowed upon us is needed.

    The right to life means that every American has the right to LIVE and that the government can not simply take that away from you without justification. (strangely, this is actually where I part with conservatives and dislike strict laws against assisted suicide) The government can not kill or harm you if you have done nothing that sacrifices your rights. The government can not experiment on your health. You are free to LIVE without any government interferance upon your LIFE. THAT'S what the right to life is.

    The government taking money from other peoples hands to give you something to help perhaps extend your life in exchange of them having further control OVER your life is far, far, far from the Right to Life and could be argued an infringement upon other peoples Right to Persue Happiness (again free of government intervening to stop that) since you seem to be wanting to say the "Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness" line is indication of a governmentally protected right.

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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Fact checking the so-called "Fact-Checkers"
    Associated Press reporter Calvin Woodward has a history of straining to catch Barack Obama in factual errors. But today's review of last night's Obama press conference may have hit a new low in absurdity.


    FAIR Blog Calvin Woodward
    You rip one biased article based on another biased article??? I guess as long as you agree with the bias, it's ok?
    Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) is a tax-exempt "media watchdog" organization founded in 1986 by radical activist Jeff Cohen, who regards the Democratic Party as "right wing." FAIR's position, as summarized in a 2004 article co-authored by its senior analyst Steve Rendall and staffer Anna Kosseff, is that, contrary to the claims of conservatives, the mainstream media in America are biased to the right, not to the left....

    FAIR's Advisory Board includes actors Edward Asner, John Cusack, Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon; journalists Ben Bagdikian, Barbara Ehrenreich, Susan Faludi, Katha Pollitt [of The Nation], and Studs Terkel; musician Jackson Browne [a supporter of the Sandinista dictatorship]; and feminists Eleanor Smeal and Gloria Steinem. Asner, Ehrenreich and Steinem are members of Democratic Socialists of America (DSA), which describes itself as "the principal U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International."
    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/g...asp?grpid=7092

    Yep, that's a great batch of bipartisan advisors.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  8. #28
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You rip one biased article based on another biased article??? I guess as long as you agree with the bias, it's ok?

    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/g...asp?grpid=7092

    Yep, that's a great batch of bipartisan advisors.
    You get the point then.

    That's why if you were following along, I indicated that I generally look to factcheck.org which in my opinion is a fairly accurate non-biased source.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  9. #29
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You get the point then.

    That's why if you were following along, I indicated that I generally look to factcheck.org which in my opinion is a fairly accurate non-biased source.
    And yet you were compelled to post a comment and link to FAIR.

    You're being dishonest.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  10. #30
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    Re: FACT CHECK: Obama's health care claims adrift?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Rights are things you INHERENTLY have, not things the government must GIVE you. More to the point, the rights enumerated in the constitution and declaration of independence are ones in which it states the government can not take away from or limit you on.

    The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Speech. If we used your idiotic logic the federal government should have to pay for my cell phone and internet connection to be assured that I am able to freely speek in all ways possible.

    The government does not need to GIVE me anything for Freedom of Religion. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be providing me with transportation to and from church services so I do not have any issues attending.

    The government does not need to GIVE me anything for the Right to Bare Arms. If we used your idiotic logic the government should be buying me guns, ammo, and paying for all the classes and liscenses they force me to buy.

    The government does not need to GIVE me anyhing for liberty, nor the persuit of happiness. What they need to do is not take things away from me.

    Your logic is flawed, worthless, and idiotic, but not most unsurprising of it all...hyper partisan. You hold it to a standard no other right that is bestowed upon us is needed.

    The right to life means that every American has the right to LIVE and that the government can not simply take that away from you without justification. (strangely, this is actually where I part with conservatives and dislike strict laws against assisted suicide) The government can not kill or harm you if you have done nothing that sacrifices your rights. The government can not experiment on your health. You are free to LIVE without any government interferance upon your LIFE. THAT'S what the right to life is.

    The government taking money from other peoples hands to give you something to help perhaps extend your life in exchange of them having further control OVER your life is far, far, far from the Right to Life and could be argued an infringement upon other peoples Right to Persue Happiness (again free of government intervening to stop that) since you seem to be wanting to say the "Life, Liberty, and Persuit of Happiness" line is indication of a governmentally protected right.

    Equating the right to basic health care to cell phones and ammo is a stretch. Even you would have to admit that.

    What is sad is that there was a time in this country where people actually cared about their neighbors. Now people have become so self-centered that it is all about how they can maximize things for themself.

    I yearn for a return to the values that this country embraced at a simpler time when people had a sense of community and understanding of basic humanity.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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