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Thread: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by StandUpChuck View Post
    There's nothing to say Bush influenced that. Those tv shows got much worse in the last 10 years, as did the slutty clothing. I almost forgot about the internet. Nude pics within 1 click. Chat rooms where kids brag about sexual trysts. Cell phones where young kids send nude pics (oft times to people they met in chatrooms). The decline of the traditonal American family where 1 parent is home after school to make sure the kids aren't sucking each other off in the basement. Bush had nothing to do with these things, and if he had ever stepped in, the outcry of censorship, morality imposing & other feigned outrages would be heard from east to west.

    It's not our president. It's our culture. Off on a tanget here. I'm so sick of people saying Americans are uptight about sex. Our culture is nothing BUT sex. I was reading a gardening site last night, and a pair of t*ts were staring me in the face.

    None of this stuff is new, Chuck.
    I'm sure parents had the same lament back in the 60s, when all major department stores began carrying mini- and micro-skirts for eight-year-olds.
    I grew up in the 80s, and if anything I think teens were far more blatantly "sexualized" back then.
    Hell, there was a whole genre of movies entirely about teenagers screwing.
    The Blue Lagoon was probably the most popular one, but there were a bunch of knock-offs, and also a bunch of movies that played mainly on late night cable that were entirely about, say, high schoolers getting laid. Or else high schoolers trying unsuccessfully to get laid.
    The attitude toward abortion was much more laid-back. Look at the casual, blase treatment of abortion in 1982's classic "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". You would not see abortion treated so lightly in a movie today. Popular film-makers today tend to avoid the issue entirely, since attempting to deal with it, from any perspective, is akin to poking a hornet's nest with a stick.
    Back in the 80s, all of the most popular teen actresses did nude scenes, sometimes even sex scenes. Phoebe Cates, Brooke Shields, Jennifer Jason Leigh, ALL of them. And yes, they did them while they were still minors.
    Today, we've got people going ballistic because a 15 or 16-year-old Miley Cyrus appears on the cover of a mainstream magazine draped in fabric which exposes her bare shoulders. Oh yeah, she's also wearing lipstick. The horror!
    So, let's see... in the 80s we had tweens and teens wearing tube tops, slop-buckets full of makeup, and Guess jeans so tight they had to zip themselves into them using a coathanger (remember that?).

    To me, teens seem more innocent today than they did 20 years ago; more childish, more prudish.
    Kids were more sophisticated 20 years ago, better at impersonating adults (or at least, more interested in doing so).
    In the 80s (and the 70s, and the 60s...) kids smoked, drank, and did a lot of drugs. And had a lot of casual sex (or at least attempted to). They partied.

    True, some kids still do these things today, but it seems like those are the "bad kids". The rebels and outcasts.
    Back in my day, these behaviors were pretty normative. It wasn't only the bad kids that did them. It was the mainstream kids, too.
    Many, many kids in the 1980s were latch-key kids, children of divorced single working parents, raising themselves and in many cases their younger siblings as well, without much adult supervision.
    Today it's just not acceptable for an eleven-year-old to come home to an empty house after school and babysit his two younger brothers until mom gets home. This situation is frowned upon.
    But back in the 80s, that was just the way things were done. It wasn't considered strange or inappropriate or dangerous or illegal.
    Kids had to be more mature, more independent. They had to grow up faster back then.
    Today, I think maybe we shelter them too much.
    Last edited by 1069; 07-21-09 at 10:13 PM.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Deej, more than anything, I think education is the key. Look at Denmark... you want to talk about morals? They openly smoke pot and prostitution is legal amongst other things. Yet they have an incredibly low teen pregnancy rate. Why is that, and don't you think that blows your theory all to hell?
    things are not universal. I hardly think legalizing prostitution and drugs will end teenage pregnancy here
    it has been decades in the making and it will be decades in correcting, if ever.
    with the Progressives trying to do away with competition and making judgements about behavior, it definitely is not certain to be fixed

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    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeJayH View Post
    things are not universal. I hardly think legalizing prostitution and drugs will end teenage pregnancy here
    it has been decades in the making and it will be decades in correcting, if ever.
    with the Progressives trying to do away with competition and making judgements about behavior, it definitely is not certain to be fixed
    I don't think you understood my point, Deej. Based-on what you have listed here in this thread, there is no doubt that Denmark is morally corrupt in your book. Yet despite all of that, they have a very low teen pregnancy rate. So my question you is why do you think that such a "sinning" society has such a low teen birth rate?
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I don't think you understood my point, Deej. Based-on what you have listed here in this thread, there is no doubt that Denmark is morally corrupt in your book. Yet despite all of that, they have a very low teen pregnancy rate. So my question you is why do you think that such a "sinning" society has such a low teen birth rate?
    Yea Denmark is one hell of a morally corrupt society.. I agree fully. We care for our elderly, we care for our sick, we defend the weak in society, and we provide for those that need regardless of sexual orientation, religion, sex or race.. ohh we are so morally corrupt! This corruption has created one of the most economically even societies in the world, one of the richest, with the some of the lowest unemployment and high economic growth.. and yes high taxes, but with free education and UHC... oh the morally corruption!

    But back in what we call reality, there is a very good reason for why there is a low teen pregnancy rate in places like Denmark.

    Education and easy access to contraception. Pure and simple.

    We teach our children the facts of life and we teach our girls how to control their own body. We do not teach that sex is a sin, or that you will go to hell if you have sex outside of marriage. We do not have conflicting messages from religious morons and politicians confusing the young. The Danish church is not much different than any other churches but they have almost totally pulled out of the political scene and rarely comment on anything. Yes they are officially against gay marriage, abortion and sex before marriage.. There is one religious political party but it lost its parliamentarian seats a decade ago or so and has not pulled enough votes to get in since.. no where close. The political parties all, including the conservatives, acknowledge that religion and sex are private matters that government should not interfere with.

    There is a clear policy in Denmark that it is up to the individual to decide on ones future and the whole society is built around that principle. That is why we have a legal consent age at 15, and partial economic freedom at 15, and full adulthood at age 18 (vote, drink, drive, marriage). Schools, education and everything basically is built up around the principle of the child having to decide as much as possible self, with of course the guidance of adults. Children are taut to think self at an early age for one and that follows children all the way through adulthood. And yes that causes other problems...

    But the country with the lowest teen pregnancy rate in the western world is Holland/Netherlands and guess why?... again.. education at an early age...I believe that like in Denmark, there are mandatory sexual education classes at a very early age, and contraception is freely available for anyone.

    But the most important thing.. Danes are far from as uptight about sex and the human body as Americans are.. We Danes all looked on in total puzzlement over the whole Janet Jackson boob slip... so much crap for nothing.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Deej, more than anything, I think education is the key. Look at Denmark... you want to talk about morals? They openly smoke pot and prostitution is legal amongst other things. Yet they have an incredibly low teen pregnancy rate. Why is that, and don't you think that blows your theory all to hell?
    Because prostitutes use protection! Is that really your argument?

    Teens typically aren't being paid to put out in the back seat. There are "feelings" involved. Things get out of hand, and they didn't bring anything, and they have a tough time turning off the engine at the key moment.

    Hookers are putting out three times an hour and come prepared. If a teenage boy in Denmark wants to get him some, he doen't have to blow his money on dinner and a movie with 16-year-old Susie on a hope she might. The sure thing is down the block.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I am a strong believer that education, rather than abstinence, is the best way to prevent teen pregnancy, but even I am surprised by these results. According to this article, both teen pregnancies and STDs have sharply risen during Bush's tenure, so I have to ask you why you think the downward trend has swung upward. Does this change your opinion of "yes, abstinence works," or do you believe it to be other underlying factors?

    From the article:


    US teen pregnancy and syphilis rates rose sharply during George Bush's presidency, Centres for Disease Control finds | World news | guardian.co.uk
    The credibility of this article is at best that of a gossip page. But here is what was pertinent about the article:

    Although the CDC does not attribute a cause, groups that support comprehensive sex education have seized on the report as evidence of the failure of religiously-driven policies that shy away from teaching about contraception in favour of emphasising avoiding sexual contact.

    Planned Parenthood said the CDC report is "alarming" and confirms that teenagers need "medically accurate, age-appropriate, comprehensive sex education".


    Why not link the report and let's see for ourselves exactly what is happening and how bad the problem is rather than playing the "agenda" game and claiming that the ONLY way these rates had been reduced in the past was by emphasizing using condoms and handing them out on middle school campuses.

    This is more like a Business cycle where you have highs and troughs, the same can be said for teen sexuality. Anyone who has raised kids understands these things.

    Of course, if you are Librul and agenda driven, it is all about Bush's failure right?

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    We Danes all looked on in total puzzlement over the whole Janet Jackson boob slip... so much crap for nothing.
    Yep, and we also blame a former president for hurricanes, poverty among blacks, people who don't pay their mortgages, and now, apparently teen pregnancy. That's one powerful dude, that George Bush.

    And no offense, but you're Denmark. Hardly the bastion of accomplishment, leadership, and might.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    None of this stuff is new, Chuck.
    I'm sure parents had the same lament back in the 60s, when all major department stores began carrying mini- and micro-skirts for eight-year-olds.
    I grew up in the 80s, and if anything I think teens were far more blatantly "sexualized" back then.
    Hell, there was a whole genre of movies entirely about teenagers screwing.
    The Blue Lagoon was probably the most popular one, but there were a bunch of knock-offs, and also a bunch of movies that played mainly on late night cable that were entirely about, say, high schoolers getting laid. Or else high schoolers trying unsuccessfully to get laid.
    The attitude toward abortion was much more laid-back. Look at the casual, blase treatment of abortion in 1982's classic "Fast Times at Ridgemont High". You would not see abortion treated so lightly in a movie today. Popular film-makers today tend to avoid the issue entirely, since attempting to deal with it, from any perspective, is akin to poking a hornet's nest with a stick.
    Back in the 80s, all of the most popular teen actresses did nude scenes, sometimes even sex scenes. Phoebe Cates, Brooke Shields, Jennifer Jason Leigh, ALL of them. And yes, they did them while they were still minors.
    Today, we've got people going ballistic because a 15 or 16-year-old Miley Cyrus appears on the cover of a mainstream magazine draped in fabric which exposes her bare shoulders. Oh yeah, she's also wearing lipstick. The horror!
    So, let's see... in the 80s we had tweens and teens wearing tube tops, slop-buckets full of makeup, and Guess jeans so tight they had to zip themselves into them using a coathanger (remember that?).

    To me, teens seem more innocent today than they did 20 years ago; more childish, more prudish.
    Kids were more sophisticated 20 years ago, better at impersonating adults (or at least, more interested in doing so).
    In the 80s (and the 70s, and the 60s...) kids smoked, drank, and did a lot of drugs. And had a lot of casual sex (or at least attempted to). They partied.

    True, some kids still do these things today, but it seems like those are the "bad kids". The rebels and outcasts.
    Back in my day, these behaviors were pretty normative. It wasn't only the bad kids that did them. It was the mainstream kids, too.
    Many, many kids in the 1980s were latch-key kids, children of divorced single working parents, raising themselves and in many cases their younger siblings as well, without much adult supervision.
    Today it's just not acceptable for an eleven-year-old to come home to an empty house after school and babysit his two younger brothers until mom gets home. This situation is frowned upon.
    But back in the 80s, that was just the way things were done. It wasn't considered strange or inappropriate or dangerous or illegal.
    Kids had to be more mature, more independent. They had to grow up faster back then.
    Today, I think maybe we shelter them too much.


    It was almost nostalgic reading this post. Very well said and quite true.
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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    My original post was in response that education and birth control only, without abstinence, are the alpha and omega for the prevention of teen pregnancy. The point being, that if you teach teens how to have sex and use birth control more teens are going to **** and more teens are going to get pregnant and it shouldn't come as a shock and it certainly isn't Bush's fault.
    I am basing this only on my experience with my daughter, but I would say that her state-required sex ed class has made it LESS likely that she will have sex, anytime, soon, and if she does, it will definitely be with a condom.

    Kids are more than capable of figuring out how to have sex on their own. Is that the scenario that we want for our children? Because, goshalmighty, it worked damn well on us, didn't it?

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