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Thread: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

  1. #141
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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Population increase? Society becoming more tolerant of pre-marital sex? There are plenty of confounding variables.
    Nope, not close.

    The collapse of the family unit. The secularization of society. The desensitizing of sex by the media. The lack of the father figure in the black community. Pornography in the computer age. The devaluation of women in rap music. The championing of abortion. The normalization of the gay lifestyle.

    People from the 50s would not even recognize this country today. We explain away everything for everybody, and integrity and principle have become the rarest of commodities.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    of course now adays alot more women are saving themselves for marriage
    so they give head and take it in the ass




    real virginal pffft

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Sex isn't okay? Really? How many of us abstained until marriage?
    You'd be surprised how many of us back in the day at least waited until college. We're talking about 14 and 15 year old here.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    You'd be surprised how many of us back in the day at least waited until college. We're talking about 14 and 15 year old here.
    hmmmm:

    Unmarried childbearing. Even though teen childbearing overall has declined steeply over the last half-century, the proportion of all teen births that are nonmarital has increased equally dramatically, from 13% in 1950 to 79% in 2000 (see chart). Two factors are at play. The first is that marriage in the teen years, which was not uncommon in the 1950s, has by now become quite rare. (By the mid-1990s, the typical age of first marriage in the United States had risen to just over 25 for women and 27 for men.) The second is that this trend has extended to pregnant teens as well: In contrast to the days of the "shotgun marriage," very few teens who become pregnant nowadays marry before their baby is born.

    Teen Pregnancy: Trends And Lessons Learned

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    What NORMAL parent is going to suggest that sex is okay to their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Sex isn't okay? Really? How many of us abstained until marriage?
    Is that what you inferred from my comment? That sex isn't okay; really?

    Yes many including myself did not abstain from sex as teens or even before marriage; does that make the message less relevant? What do you think would happen if ALL of us suddenly got honest with kids and said basically, "we know you are going to have sex, we did the same thing so just go for it?"

    Really Catz? Tell me something and be honest; what do you tell your daughter (assuming my memory is correct about you saying you have one)?

  6. #146
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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I do read. I've read that condoms are only 86% effective at stopping pregnancy. More teens start prokin', more teens are going to get pregnant. It's a statistical inevidibility.
    Apparently you don't read. Either that, or you don't like sticking on topic. Because you've not once, in ANY of your posts that I read, addressed the OP's actual article or statement but just ran off on your own tangent with nothing backing it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by StandUpChuck View Post
    It's not our president. It's our culture. Off on a tanget here. I'm so sick of people saying Americans are uptight about sex. Our culture is nothing BUT sex. I was reading a gardening site last night, and a pair of t*ts were staring me in the face.
    I agree with a lot of what you said there StandUpChuck. However, there's no more evidence that the things you've stated attributed to the increase are the reason than there is that abstinence only education attributed to it. You're making anecdotal conjecture based on correlation, just like the ones saying Bush caused it are.

    Could it be social? Yes. Could it be educational? Yes. Could it be something completely seperate? Yes.

    We'd need to do a number of things...

    Look at places where the pregnancy rates are the highest, and the places where they've risen the most. What sex education was going on there, during what years? If it was once one kind and switched over to another what did the pregnancy and STD rates do in relation to those times?

    What is the family life like for these various places? What is the income level? What kind of cultural effects may have played into it. How strict or lax were their parents? How prevelant was sexual encounters in their particular school?

    Those that are saying that definitively, unquestionably, this has nothing to do with Abstinence only education and Bush are being just as poor logicly as those that are saying its definitely due to it. Those that are asserting that it is definitively societal issues that causes it without any more evidence than the other side has is just as erronious.

    Personally, I think it is a mix of things.

    I think a hyper sexualized society where we have people famous for no other reason than the fact they've had sex or act slutty, where even things aimed at preteens are sexualized, where there's so much awareness of sex and sexual practices MIXED with piss poor education about how to be protected is a very, very dangerous mix.

    I think its a pathetic, disgusting, and somehow unsurprising look at our country that SEX ED has become such a ****ing partisan topic. Its sickening, its disgusting, and its sad. The fact that both sides must so polarize into the extremes of their sides and stick their fingers in their ears going "LALALALA I can't hear you I must insult you without question lalalalalala" is a disservice to our children and is a glaring example of what's wrong with this country.

    Pure abstinence only education is idoitic, irresponsable, unsafe, and frankly insulting. This is doubly true when many of the course material for it out and out purposefully lies or distorts legitimate true information in hopes of scaring and propogandizing kids. We never want our kids to go to a bad neighborhood, we'd alwasy want to make sure they know to avoid it. But would we still not tell them "don't go down dark alleys, don't talk to strangers, don't accept things from people" so that if they somehow DID wind up in a bad neighborhood they'd at least know smart ways to deal with the situation? Condoms are not the devil. They are not evil. They are not villianous. And a CONDOM never MADE someone have sex no matter how much some idiotic conservatives seem to act like they do.

    On the flip side.

    The idiocy by some on the "comprehensive" side is equally disgusting and irresponsable. No, sex does not need to be promoted as something people need to go out and experiment with when you're teaching it in middle or even high school. We don't need to be urging people to "find their sexuality" which can just as easily confuse kids that would previously not be confused as help those that are. We don't need to be giving out condoms and at times lube freely and willfully while going "You know, just in case". We don't need to go into decent detail about different sexual acts. And above all, YES, we most DEFINITELY should be stressing to kids, especially ones that are younger, that abstinence is GOOD and the only SURE way to avoid pregnancy and STD's is to NOT engage in sexual conduct. Do we know that some of them are going to anyways? Yes, yes they are, and that's why the other portions are important. But its ALSO important to stress that its probably not SMART to be doing that and the potential risks and dangers of it in a real, legitimate way so that you DO deter some from it.

    This idiotic all or nothing position so many people seem to be on baffles my mind and leads me to believe its nothing but pure, pathetic, hyper partisan politics as people try to score political points. We don't need pure abstinence only education, and we don't need hyper sexualized sex education either. We need a balanced, informative, factually based sex education that encourages and promotes abstinence while informing and teaching of the ways to protect yourself when you do eventually become sexually active. Having one, or the other, but not both, is irresponsible and putting politics ahead of logic and the well being of our youth.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Quote:Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    What NORMAL parent is going to suggest that sex is okay to their children?

    Is that what you inferred from my comment? That sex isn't okay; really?

    Yes many including myself did not abstain from sex as teens or even before marriage; does that make the message less relevant? What do you think would happen if ALL of us suddenly got honest with kids and said basically, "we know you are going to have sex, we did the same thing so just go for it?"

    Really Catz? Tell me something and be honest; what do you tell your daughter (assuming my memory is correct about you saying you have one)?
    Are you really scared of being honest with your child? I told my daughter how I lost my virginity, my regrets in regards to it, and my hopes for her life. However, I've also said that if she chooses to have sex (and realistically, that choice is in her hands), that I hope she chooses to use protection (although I've also told her that condoms cannot protect her from several STDs such as HPV and HSV1 & HSV2). I've shared with her the risks, issues, and other problems with having sex in high school (i.e., expect any guy you have sex with to immediately tell all of his friends). But, I don't see sex as evil, so I don't particularly expect her to wait until marriage. Nor do I see "abstinence only" messages as particularly realistic or in-touch with the average teenager's mentality.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    hmmmm:

    Unmarried childbearing. Even though teen childbearing overall has declined steeply over the last half-century, the proportion of all teen births that are nonmarital has increased equally dramatically, from 13% in 1950 to 79% in 2000 (see chart). Two factors are at play. The first is that marriage in the teen years, which was not uncommon in the 1950s, has by now become quite rare. (By the mid-1990s, the typical age of first marriage in the United States had risen to just over 25 for women and 27 for men.) The second is that this trend has extended to pregnant teens as well: In contrast to the days of the "shotgun marriage," very few teens who become pregnant nowadays marry before their baby is born.

    Teen Pregnancy: Trends And Lessons Learned
    Facts can be so refreshing; not to mention educational.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Pure abstinence only education is idoitic, irresponsable, unsafe, and frankly insulting. This is doubly true when many of the course material for it out and out purposefully lies or distorts legitimate true information in hopes of scaring and propogandizing kids. We never want our kids to go to a bad neighborhood, we'd alwasy want to make sure they know to avoid it. But would we still not tell them "don't go down dark alleys, don't talk to strangers, don't accept things from people" so that if they somehow DID wind up in a bad neighborhood they'd at least know smart ways to deal with the situation? Condoms are not the devil. They are not evil. They are not villianous. And a CONDOM never MADE someone have sex no matter how much some idiotic conservatives seem to act like they do.
    HEAR, HEAR. What I have found, in working with high-risk teenagers and young adults, for the past 19 years, is that teens appreciate honesty, facts, and good information. They're going to make their own choices, no matter what we tell them, but putting our heads in the sand and pretending that if we tell them to "just say no" will work is patently stupid. It didn't work in 1950, and it doesn't work now.

    Also, in regards to out of wedlock births, the issue isn't that more teenagers get pregnant. It's that fewer of them get married.

    The percentage, per capita, of teenage pregnancies has remained largely consistent since the 1950s. Sorry to burst any bubbles.

    Apparently, our parents were just as horny as our kids are.

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    Re: Teen pregnancy and disease rates rose sharply during Bush years, agency finds

    p.s. my mom got pregnant with me in 1966, went to a home for unwed mothers in Kansas City, and gave me up for adoption.

    Apparently, the culture was pretty sexual back in those days.

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