Poll: Public losing trust in President Obama

sam_w · Jul 21, 2009

BoyKagome said:
Ok there may have been problems with our Health Care system before, Medicaid being the biggest example in my opinion. However it is not nearly as bad as what is being said, this 56 million number is a fabrication that includes people who don't even have a interest in having Medical Insurance or are unqualified such as children and illegals.

Please don't take the time or effort to actually educate yourself on the issue, that would be a lot of work wouldn't it? I guess it is easier to remain ignorant than actually spend the precious few moments to even do a search to the total number of uninsured and under insured.

BoyKagome · Jul 21, 2009

I explained how those numbers are counting people who don't want Health Care or those that are not qualified. Your job is to negate that point by showing a statement that proves that illegals and those are not interested are either not counted... or don't make a significant difference. When you do, I will counter with further knowledge that I have on the topic.

Goobieman · Jul 21, 2009

tlmorg02 said:
Do you care to elaborate why you feel such? Your simple assertion with no rebuttal does not suffice.

Sure it does.

You're not illustrating a neccessary relationship, you're relating a scenario -- a 'what if', or, at best, a "I think this will happen". Necessary relationships do not allow for 'what ifs' or 'I thinks', they require a 'must be'.

You say these things might/might not happen, or, at best, that in your opinion they will happen, but you do not explain how they MUST happen, nor do you show that they cannot be avoided any other way.

So to that end, you are chargd with showing that there is a necessary relatiuonhsip between Obama's plan failing and 'bad times' for America, in that:
1: "Bad times" -MUST- follow if The Obama's plan fails;
2: "Bad times" -CANNOT- be otherwise averted through other means.

Is that more clear?

tlmorg02 · Jul 21, 2009

Goobieman said:
Sure it does.

You're not illustrating a neccessary relationship, you're relating a scenario -- a 'what if', or, at best, a "I think this will happen". Necessary relationships do not allow for 'what ifs' or 'I thinks', they require a 'must be'.

You say these things might/might not happen, or, at best, that in your opinion they will happen, but you do not explain how they MUST happen, nor do you show that they cannot be avoided any other way.

So to that end, you are chargd with showing that there is a necessary relatiuonhsip between Obama's plan failing and 'bad times' for America, in that:
1: "Bad times" -MUST- follow if The Obama's plan fails;
2: "Bad times" -CANNOT- be otherwise averted through other means.

Is that more clear?

If Obama's stimulus fails, THERE will be massive increase in unemployment and a huge tax burden ahead. If healthcare is not fixed, IT WILL begin to exclude more and more people, creating a crisis in this country. There is no aversion.

Ethereal · Jul 21, 2009

aps said:
I'm not losing faith...

You have faith in a politician? That's a laugher.

Ethereal · Jul 21, 2009

tlmorg02 said:
It's not the being against, but the hope that the President will fail. If he fails, then one is essentially hoping for bad times in America.

Wishing failure upon the policies of the President is not the same as wishing harm or failure upon America.

Goobieman · Jul 21, 2009

tlmorg02 said:
If Obama's stimulus fails, THERE will be massive increase in unemployment and a huge tax burden ahead. If healthcare is not fixed, IT WILL begin to exclude more and more people, creating a crisis in this country. There is no aversion.

You saying so does not make it so.

And thus, you have not illustrated the required necessary relationship, thereby leaving unsupported your argument that 'wishing Obama fails = wishing bad times for America'.

Erod · Jul 21, 2009

sam_w said:
Please don't take the time or effort to actually educate yourself on the issue, that would be a lot of work wouldn't it? I guess it is easier to remain ignorant than actually spend the precious few moments to even do a search to the total number of uninsured and under insured.

His point was correct.

ANYONE can walk into a hospital without health insurance or so much as an ID and get medical attention. Anyone. I can't believe, when 90 percent of the country is perfectly happy with their healthcare coverage, that we're going to change the whole damn thing for the other 10 percent, many of which don't even understand the question.

tlmorg02 · Jul 21, 2009

Goobieman said:
You saying so does not make it so.

And thus, you have not illustrated the required necessary relationship, thereby leaving unsupported your argument that 'wishing Obama fails = wishing bad times for America'.

So you deny that if the stimulus fails, and those who have recieved it, are unable to pay it back, it will lead to increased unemployment and economic failure?

tlmorg02 · Jul 21, 2009

Ethereal said:
Wishing failure upon the policies of the President is not the same as wishing harm or failure upon America.

Wishing complete failure on a President, is wishing for a failure in the position. If the position fails to execute it's job, then harm to the country follows. If a CEO of a company fails to perform his/her postion, the company suffers, does it not?

Gibberish · Jul 21, 2009

Dr_Patrick said:
Well, I'm definitely not referring to the average Obama supporter. I've seen people who have no clue about his policies and just blindly support him because he's a Democrat or because he's not Bush. I think the whole "messiah" idea is ridiculously overblown and just a cheap jab. If a majority of Obama supporters really viewed him as a messianic figure these poll numbers wouldn't be reflecting that the public is losing trust in him.

I completely agree. You can find the same level of blind devotion towards political figures on any side of the political spectrum. It just happens that it's only wrong when the "other side" is doing it.

Those people that blindly devote probably don't know anything about American politics or government other then Obama being President. Which is probably, sadly, a huge number of the populace on all sides of the political spectrum.

Ethereal · Jul 21, 2009

Erod said:
Truly sad. Challenger candidates have been running on "hope and change" since about 1812, but yet it still works on the mindless.

Pappy O'Daniel: We need a shot in the arm. You hear me boys? In the goddamn arm! Election held tomorrow, that son of bitch Stokes would win it in a walk!

Junior O'Daniel: Well he's the reform candidate, Daddy.

Pappy O'Daniel: Yeah.

Junior O'Daniel: A lot of people like that reform. Maybe we should get us some.

Pappy O'Daniel: I'll reform you, you soft-headed son of a bitch. How we gonna run reform when we're the damn incumbent?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-5ondb23tI"]YouTube - Pass the Biscuits Pappy O'Daniel[/ame]

Erod · Jul 21, 2009

tlmorg02 said:
So you deny that if the stimulus fails, and those who have recieved it, are unable to pay it back, it will lead to increased unemployment and economic failure?

The stimulus will fail. That's a given, and that's his point. Printing money as a band-aid hasn't worked in world history, so why would it work now? We didn't have any money to begin with, so printing up a quick trillion will fix the problem?

If Obama fails to get another stimulus, fails to socialize healthcare, fails to pass a cap and tax bill, etc, we might one day find our way out of this mess.

He's done far too much damage already.

Goobieman · Jul 21, 2009

FY2008 the Federal government spent $682.1B on Medicare/ Medicad
$2273 for every man, woman and child in the US
Thats over $9000 for a family of 4, per year.

Do you suppose if the liberals let us keep that money, we could take care of our own health care?

Ethereal · Jul 21, 2009

tlmorg02 said:
Wishing complete failure on a President, is wishing for a failure in the position. If the position fails to execute it's job, then harm to the country follows. If a CEO of a company fails to perform his/her postion, the company suffers, does it not?

Wishing failure upon HARMFUL policy initiatives is not the same as wishing harm upon America - quite the opposite actually.

tlmorg02 · Jul 21, 2009

Ethereal said:
Pappy O'Daniel: We need a shot in the arm. You hear me boys? In the goddamn arm! Election held tomorrow, that son of bitch Stokes would win it in a walk!

Junior O'Daniel: Well he's the reform candidate, Daddy.

Pappy O'Daniel: Yeah.

Junior O'Daniel: A lot of people like that reform. Maybe we should get us some.

Pappy O'Daniel: I'll reform you, you soft-headed son of a bitch. How we gonna run reform when we're the damn incumbent?

YouTube - Pass the Biscuits Pappy O'Daniel

Now you have definitely won me over! Using one of my all-time favorite movies wins all arguments!:lol:

Gibberish · Jul 21, 2009

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Nah, it never happens from the left.

And we have posters here defending the admin for paying more than retail for ham. :lol:

I didn't say it doesn't happen. I said the conservatives exaggerate it past reality. I can find those same type of ignorance in support of McCain, Palin, Bush, Limbaugh, Coulter, and Hannity.

Should I start saying that those on the right refer to these individuals as Prophets and Gods?

Gibberish · Jul 21, 2009

Goobieman said:
FY2008 the Federal government spent $682.1B on Medicare/ Medicad
$2273 for every man, woman and child in the US
Thats over $9000 for a family of 4, per year.

Do you suppose if the liberals let us keep that money, we could take care of our own health care?

Do you honestly believe that every family in American equally paid $9k per year or that every individual paid $2k?

Erod · Jul 21, 2009

Goobieman said:
FY2008 the Federal government spent $682.1B on Medicare/ Medicad
$2273 for every man, woman and child in the US
Thats over $9000 for a family of 4, per year.

Do you suppose if the liberals let us keep that money, we could take care of our own health care?

Is it not truly sad that third-grade reason is such an impossibly unrealistic solution today?

The fact that your point is so obvious, yet will never happen, tells you just how steep a cliff we face.

tlmorg02 · Jul 21, 2009

Ethereal said:
Wishing failure upon HARMFUL policy initiatives is not the same as wishing harm upon America - quite the opposite actually.

I agree, but he did not mention policy.

DamnYankee-I hope BO fails miserably, along with all leftists for that matter.

Ethereal · Jul 21, 2009

tlmorg02 said:
I agree, but he did not mention policy.

It does if you put the quote in context:

"I hope he fails." (interruption) What are you laughing at? See, here's the point. Everybody thinks it's outrageous to say. Look, even my staff, "Oh, you can't do that." Why not? Why is it any different, what's new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what's gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don't care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: "Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails."

Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails

Goobieman · Jul 21, 2009

tlmorg02 said:
So you deny that if the stimulus fails

I deny that you have shown that this MUST happen, and that it CANNOT be otherwise averted.

So far, your argument rests on nothing more than your saying so.

tlmorg02 · Jul 21, 2009

Ethereal said:
It does if you put the quote in context:

"I hope he fails." (interruption) What are you laughing at? See, here's the point. Everybody thinks it's outrageous to say. Look, even my staff, "Oh, you can't do that." Why not? Why is it any different, what's new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what's gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don't care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: "Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails."

Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails

I was quoting Damn Yankee. But let's discuss this. How has liberalism led us to the precipice?

tlmorg02 · Jul 21, 2009

Goobieman said:
I deny that you have shown that this MUST happen, and that it CANNOT be otherwise averted.

So far, your argument rests on nothing more than your saying so.

How can it be averted?

Goobieman · Jul 21, 2009

tlmorg02 said:
How can it be averted?

The burden of proof here is on you, not me.
To show the necessary relationship required to support your position, YOU must show that it CANNOT be averted, that is MUST happen, and NOTHING ELSE will stop it.

Poll: Public losing trust in President Obama

sam_w

Well-known member

BoyKagome

New member

Goobieman

tlmorg02

Ethereal

Ethereal

Goobieman

Erod

tlmorg02

tlmorg02

Gibberish

Ethereal

Erod

Goobieman

Ethereal

tlmorg02

Gibberish

Gibberish

Erod

tlmorg02

Ethereal

Goobieman

tlmorg02

tlmorg02

Goobieman