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Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Does one have to make a complaint? Isn't the officer a citizen and could he level the complaint?
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In most states, and I'm told by my assistant prosecutor friend that Mass is the same, on duty police officers cannot have their peace disturbed. On duty police are not generally considered a member of "the public." This has been commonly held in most states for decades.
Or does the officer have the option of observing and deciding if one is disturbing the peace...
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Not to my knowledge.

I'm just askin, I don't know in this case.
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It's a good question.
 
Caine said:
This is where we disagree.

I do not feel a complaint is needed to an incident that is witnessed by police.

You think police should be able to make an arrest based upon a citizen complaint without witnessing the actual disturbance.
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We have been over this several times already. It's specific to certain criminal offenses. Mainly public order type offenses. Why must I continue to repeating myself? I even provided examples from California agencies in which they have to inform the public that certain complaints REQUIRE a victim complaint for an officer to take action, whether or not the officer observes the crime occur.

****. You don't really know what I think Caine because you are attributing arguments to me I'm not making.
 
Caine said:
I'll tell you the response to that one.

Speeding isn't a crime against the public.
:cool:
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And you'd be right. It's not. It's a traffic offense in which the city, township, state, etc. is the victim and complainant.
 
Lerxst said:
And you'd be right. It's not. It's a traffic offense in which the city, township, state, etc. is the victim and complainant.
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Lerxst, you seem like you would be a real valuable LEO. You clearly had more then the 18 month crash course that is so prevalent in society today!
 
Caine said:
I'll tell you the response to that one.

Speeding isn't a crime against the public.
:cool:
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What if I am doing, uhm donuts on the neigbors lawn?:mrgreen:


(Im trying to think of an example....)


How about sitting in front of a church on sunday reving the engine and flipping off congregants...... :mrgreen:
 
Lerxst said:
We have been over this several times already. It's specific to certain criminal offenses. Mainly public order type offenses. Why must I continue to repeating myself? I even provided examples from California agencies in which they have to inform the public that certain complaints REQUIRE a victim complaint for an officer to take action, whether or not the officer observes the crime occur.
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I understand that this might be the way things are in some places. I also disagree that it makes any damned sense. Disorderly conduct does not raise to the level of worth to bother with gathering up members of the public who are willing to give statements to their peace getting disturbed, thus in that form it is unenforceable, either because the 'public' won't cooperate, or the police realize its not worth the effort (I sure as hell wouldn't do it).


****. You don't really know what I think Caine because you are attributing arguments to me I'm not making.
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I might be getting you mixed up with someone else earlier in this thread (and I'll be damned if im going back to search) but im pretty certain you informed me that citizens don't have to go to the magistrate to obtain warrants that they deal with the police directly and they make an on scene arrest in cases they didn't witness anything.

I might be wrong about it being you though.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
What if I am doing, uhm donuts on the neigbors lawn?:mrgreen:


(Im trying to think of an example....)


How about sitting in front of a church on sunday reving the engine and flipping off congregants...... :mrgreen:
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Then your going to hell.:lol:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
What if I am doing, uhm donuts on the neigbors lawn?
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Damage to property. Neighbor would have to 'file a complaint' and in my area, go to the magistrate to obtain arrest warrants on you for the damage.




How about sitting in front of a church on sunday reving the engine and flipping off congregants......
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I can't really think of anything. I guess this could be considered disorderly conduct, but not if the church people don't complain according to Lerxst. :mrgreen:
 
Caine said:
Damage to property. Neighbor would have to 'file a complaint' and in my area, go to the magistrate to obtain arrest warrants on you for the damage.
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Ok I understand i think, though tell me in the case of domestic violence, if an officer observes it, or say observes my hooliganism on the neighbors lawn, cant I be arrested without a complaing from the offended party?




I can't really think of anything. I guess this could be considered disorderly conduct, but not if the church people don't complain according to Lerxst. :mrgreen:
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:cool::cool::cool:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Ok I understand i think, though tell me in the case of domestic violence, if an officer observes it, or say observes my hooliganism on the neighbors lawn, cant I be arrested without a complaing from the offended party?
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Domestic laws are very different. I blame OJ.

Domestic laws can be prosecuted without the victim's willingness.

True Example:
Police had been to this residence on 2 other occasions and I was called out on the 3rd occassion, all 3rd party callers due to the loud noise their arguing and throwing things was making (it was an apartment). I arrived and they went through their same old thing, We'll stop, blah blah. The female went from saying he was going to kill her (hysteric) to "we are fine, no problems, blah blah". First we tried to convince her to go to mental health voluntarily (she was Cray-Zee). When that didn't work, I was talking to the male trying to convince him to take a free police assisted ride (he was drunk) to somewhere close to seperate the two of them for the night. While talking to him about it, she discovered that he sounded interesting in going and this angered her so she came up and started yelling at him and open hand slap/pushed him in the chest. At this point I knew that my job here had been solved, as this was an 'assault' and she was arrested for such even though he didn't want to prosecute. It was a means to an end of that ignorant problem of going out to their house every hour.

However, with the neighbor lawn incident. Even if I observed the lawn being destroyed by yer 4x4 monster truck tires, I can't charge for that without the victim's consent. I could however, charge for reckless driving, which is an arrestable offense here.
 
Caine said:
I could however, charge for reckless driving, which is an arrestable offense here.
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in most states, reckless driving has to occur on public streets to hold up in court.
 
Caine said:
Domestic laws are very different. I blame OJ.

Domestic laws can be prosecuted without the victim's willingness.

True Example:
Police had been to this residence on 2 other occasions and I was called out on the 3rd occassion, all 3rd party callers due to the loud noise their arguing and throwing things was making (it was an apartment). I arrived and they went through their same old thing, We'll stop, blah blah. The female went from saying he was going to kill her (hysteric) to "we are fine, no problems, blah blah". First we tried to convince her to go to mental health voluntarily (she was Cray-Zee). When that didn't work, I was talking to the male trying to convince him to take a free police assisted ride (he was drunk) to somewhere close to seperate the two of them for the night. While talking to him about it, she discovered that he sounded interesting in going and this angered her so she came up and started yelling at him and open hand slap/pushed him in the chest. At this point I knew that my job here had been solved, as this was an 'assault' and she was arrested for such even though he didn't want to prosecute. It was a means to an end of that ignorant problem of going out to their house every hour.
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Sounds like every episode of "Cops"


However, with the neighbor lawn incident. Even if I observed the lawn being destroyed by yer 4x4 monster truck tires, I can't charge for that without the victim's consent. I could however, charge for reckless driving, which is an arrestable offense here.
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You could? Even if I was on private property? Granted, not mine? :mrgreen:

I did donuts once in my vette on my buldings property once. Police didn't witness it, but came over when the billowing smoke rolled across the highway.... He asked me what I was doing, I said "donuts sir", he asked for my license and stuff to which as I was giving it to him, stated. "I am on private property"......

He then asked if I was the building owner, to which I said yes.... He then handed me back my stuff and asked if I minded to stop..... I said sure and went on about my day..... ;)
 
And just think, if Gates had produced and actual ID and kept his mouth shut, none of this would have happened. I guess that would be way to much to ask for from someone with such a large chip on his shoulder.
 
ARealConservative said:
in most states, reckless driving has to occur on public streets to hold up in court.
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How did he get onto the lawn? Airdrop there?
Is he going to grow wings and fly off?

Either way, his exit from the public street constitutes driving in a manner that is likely to endanger persons or property.
 
Caine said:
How did he get onto the lawn? Airdrop there?
Is he going to grow wings and fly off?

Either way, his exit from the public street constitutes driving in a manner that is likely to endanger persons or property.
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Even if I stopped, signaled, looked both ways and gave you the thumbs up?
 
Caine said:
How did he get onto the lawn? Airdrop there?
Is he going to grow wings and fly off?

Either way, his exit from the public street constitutes driving in a manner that is likely to endanger persons or property.
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so every time someone drives on a lawn, it is reckless driving?

Is that your position?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
You could? Even if I was on private property? Granted, not mine? :mrgreen:
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As I said, It all depends on what part I witnessed, and the manner in which it was done. If you nicely got into their driveway from the 'public' road and then started tearing **** up, I could do pretty much nothing.

If you went swerving off into the grass like a madman, then we might have something.


I did donuts once in my vette on my buldings property once. Police didn't witness it, but came over when the billowing smoke rolled across the highway.... He asked me what I was doing, I said "donuts sir", he asked for my license and stuff to which as I was giving it to him, stated. "I am on private property"......

He then asked if I was the building owner, to which I said yes.... He then handed me back my stuff and asked if I minded to stop..... I said sure and went on about my day..... ;)
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Hilarious. I wouldn't have asked you to stop unless you were causing problems with the nearby roadways with all the smoke :mrgreen:

I also probably would have sat and watched.
 
ARealConservative said:
so every time someone drives on a lawn, it is reckless driving?

Is that your position?
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No, that is not my position.
But thanks for trying to put words in my mouth to then call me a power abusing bastard who trumps up charges.

Read my 2nd reply to the good rev.
 
Caine said:
As I said, It all depends on what part I witnessed, and the manner in which it was done. If you nicely got into their driveway from the 'public' road and then started tearing **** up, I could do pretty much nothing.

If you went swerving off into the grass like a madman, then we might have something.



Hilarious. I wouldn't have asked you to stop unless you were causing problems with the nearby roadways with all the smoke :mrgreen:

I also probably would have sat and watched.
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There was the other time, I had a 72 bronco, that I was messing around with, and got the carburator stuck wide open,,, then while spinning round and round trying to grab the keys to shut it down as it was doing donuts I hit the shifter into reverse.... There was this horrendus grinding clunk a pause then my head as it bashed the windshield into pieces going backwards. doing reverse donuts....... I finally got the key and shut it down, got out dazed and across the street was a cop watching the antics of a 17 year old kid...... I probably would have gotten in trouble had he kept his composure of laughing at me...... :lol:
 
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