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Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

Dr_Patrick said:
Except that when one examines the quota system it is a legitimate concern. There shouldn't be a quota system. I fail to see how the quota system falls in line with the idea of "protecting" and "serving".
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I fail to see how some stupid catch phrase for the duties of police officers made up by the failing LAPD is somehow supposed to be applied to policing in general.

Its not the job of the police to protect individuals, this has been upheld by the supreme court.

I also think you failed to recognize I was specifically talking about a Highway Patrol unit, and as stated, that the mission of a highway patrol unit is to patrol the highways and charge offenders for traffic law violations. Highway patrol units do not respond to B/E, Rape, Murder, Robbery, etc. Investigating crashes and enforcing traffic laws, and maintaining the safety of the roadways is their job. Thats it.


I find it amusing that when people bring up stories of specific cops abusing their authority that you automatically side with the cop and insult the person telling the story. Why is it really so hard for you to believe that a cop did this?
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Because its too 'cliche' coming from many people who have a preconceived dislike for the police in general, which is apparent in Scarecrow's post.

I can't believe such stories when followed by the rest of his post.
 
Caine said:
I fail to see how some stupid catch phrase for the duties of police officers made up by the failing LAPD is somehow supposed to be applied to policing in general.

Its not the job of the police to protect individuals, this has been upheld by the supreme court.

I also think you failed to recognize I was specifically talking about a Highway Patrol unit, and as stated, that the mission of a highway patrol unit is to patrol the highways and charge offenders for traffic law violations. Highway patrol units do not respond to B/E, Rape, Murder, Robbery, etc. Investigating crashes and enforcing traffic laws, and maintaining the safety of the roadways is their job. Thats it.
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I'm just speaking in general terms about quotas. Perhaps there is a legitimate reason for the system, but I honestly can't see one. Then again, I'm not a cop. However, I can certainly understand why the average joe would be paranoid or feel somewhat victimized with such a system in place. If a person felt like they were being wrongly accused I can certainly see them thinking that the quota system may have something to do with it. The average joe doesn't have the knowledge and information that you have about being a cop so they should be given a bit of a break for that.

Because its too 'cliche' coming from many people who have a preconceived dislike for the police in general, which is apparent in Scarecrow's post.

I can't believe such stories when followed by the rest of his post.
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It may be cliche, but it's also probably true. What reason would you have to doubt his story other than your own bias? And I didn't see a preconceived dislike for police in general. I saw him making a statement that some cops are assholes and he gave a couple examples of that.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I'm just speaking in general terms about quotas. Perhaps there is a legitimate reason for the system, but I honestly can't see one. Then again, I'm not a cop. However, I can certainly understand why the average joe would be paranoid or feel somewhat victimized with such a system in place.
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The average joe should have at least enough common sense to realize that if you don't perform your job, you won't have one, and that your work effort is measured in one way or another from fast food, to corporate marketing, and yes, even law enforcement.
If a person felt like they were being wrongly accused I can certainly see them thinking that the quota system may have something to do with it. The average joe doesn't have the knowledge and information that you have about being a cop so they should be given a bit of a break for that.
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What kind of a break? A break like because they don't know what I know about their speed because they aren't paying attention then they shouldn't be held responsible for their actions? Or, be given a break and continue to allow this stupid "oh, its the end of the month, he must be trying to get his quota" bull**** excuse for getting charged for something they did. I don't consider that the average joe. The average joe takes responsibility for his/her actions when they screw up. Its fools who find a way to blame someone else. Its also these same fools that you will see getting in trouble with the law more often than those who are adult enough to take responsibility when they have done something wrong.

Do people sometimes get stopped and accused of something they didn't do? Yes. Thats why we have courts. The courts are also a good reason for an officer to not charge someone who isn't doing something wrong. I have yet to meet a member of law enforcement who loves to spend their day in court. In fact, just the opposite, I work with officers who don't do **** all night because they don't want to end up having to go to court, which is inevitable in many cases.



It may be cliche, but it's also probably true. What reason would you have to doubt his story other than your own bias? And I didn't see a preconceived dislike for police in general. I saw him making a statement that some cops are assholes and he gave a couple examples of that.
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Ahh, you apparently weren't paying attention....

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
So, yeah, abuse of power is routine among cops.

Cops are often thugs with badges.
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I rest my case, these are blanket statements made by someone who has a dislike for police in general.
 
Caine said:
The average joe should have at least enough common sense to realize that if you don't perform your job, you won't have one, and that your work effort is measured in one way or another from fast food, to corporate marketing, and yes, even law enforcement.
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Yes, but to the average joe a cop's job is to protect and serve. From their point of view, actively searching for violators to meet a quota seems to go against that creed. I wouldn't put a cop in the same category as a typical job which usually has similar things to make money or raise profits. To the average joe this idea doesn't exactly make sense.

What kind of a break? A break like because they don't know what I know about their speed because they aren't paying attention then they shouldn't be held responsible for their actions? Or, be given a break and continue to allow this stupid "oh, its the end of the month, he must be trying to get his quota" bull**** excuse for getting charged for something they did. I don't consider that the average joe. The average joe takes responsibility for his/her actions when they screw up. Its fools who find a way to blame someone else. Its also these same fools that you will see getting in trouble with the law more often than those who are adult enough to take responsibility when they have done something wrong.

Do people sometimes get stopped and accused of something they didn't do? Yes. Thats why we have courts. The courts are also a good reason for an officer to not charge someone who isn't doing something wrong. I have yet to meet a member of law enforcement who loves to spend their day in court. In fact, just the opposite, I work with officers who don't do **** all night because they don't want to end up having to go to court, which is inevitable in many cases.
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No, a break like you shouldn't expect them to automatically know the ins and outs of the police system. A break like you shouldn't criticize them for not agreeing with the quota system when it makes absolutely zero sense to them from their perspective.

Ahh, you apparently weren't paying attention....

I rest my case, these are blanket statements made by someone who has a dislike for police in general.
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I agree that those are unnecessary blanket statements, but they are probably based on the personal experiences that he has had with cops. I know a lot of people who have similar generalized views about cops because of the times they've been hassled. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch.
 
Interesting, the police report is no longer available for reading. Based on the description provided by the police officer, Gates deserved to be arrested.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Yes, but to the average joe a cop's job is to protect and serve.
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Christ you are still using that stupid 'protect and serve' which is NOT the function of police. AND you are still ignoring that I am specifically talking about Highway Patrol. Whose job it is to patrol and write TRAFFIC citations(tickets) and NOT answer rapes, robbery, etc.
They don't do it.

From their point of view, actively searching for violators to meet a quota seems to go against that creed. I wouldn't put a cop in the same category as a typical job which usually has similar things to make money or raise profits. To the average joe this idea doesn't exactly make sense.
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It has nothing to do with raising money or making profits. It has everything to do with enforcing traffic safety laws. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt when it comes to changing someone's driving patterns.



No, a break like you shouldn't expect them to automatically know the ins and outs of the police system. A break like you shouldn't criticize them for not agreeing with the quota system when it makes absolutely zero sense to them from their perspective.
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I can see I am wasting my time here. Nothing I type is being actually taken into consideration by you when you reply.




I agree that those are unnecessary blanket statements, but they are probably based on the personal experiences that he has had with cops. I know a lot of people who have similar generalized views about cops because of the times they've been hassled. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch.
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Yeah, well in that case all insurance salesmen, bank representatives, church witnesses, retail clerks, VA representatives, college financial aid liasons, and telemarketers are a bunch of worthless pricks.
 
from the cited article of the OP, it appears gates was INSIDE his home
he provided the requested identification
and THEN he was arrested
appears that the cops did not appreciate that gates both knew and asserted his rights
Friends of Gates said he was already in his home when police arrived. He showed his driver’s license and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into police custody for several hours last Thursday, they said.

The police report said Gates was arrested after he yelled at the investigating officer repeatedly inside the residence then followed the officer outside, where Gates continued to upbraid him. "It was at that time that I informed Professor Gates that he was under arrest,'' the officer wrote in the report.
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the city of cambridge will soon make gates a wealthier man
 
Caine said:
Well, if your sole job is to patrol the highways and enforce traffic laws, then you are going to be expected to perform, to earn your pay.

But when a 'quota' is brought up, it always has a negative connotation that goes along with it, as if the person being cited (given a ticket, however you want to call it), is only being cited because of a quota, and not because they violated some form of state traffic law.
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If the damn cops don't like the negative connotation of the word quota, they should stop giving their patrolmen quotas to meet.

It's as simple as that.

Caine said:
Its a method for those who are incapable of taking personal responsibility for their actions to attempt to justify what is going on in their own mind.
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No, it's a managerial method used by incompetents to count beans and rake in revenue. Lord knows there's enough damn fools on the streets to keep any conscientious cop busy all day, there's absolutely no need for the boobs at the station house to be setting quotas, which, as you say, are then used by the guilty to blame the cops.

I'm not going to blame the cops on the street for that, no. I can't name one time I've been stopped that I didn't deserve it, except for that one podunk town in Utah where the speed limit dropped to thirty five from fifty five for a hundred yards on an open street, but I was the passenger that time.


Caine said:
That sounds like a rare jack ass. There are jack asses in every profession, policing is no exception.
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Nope, fairly common cop behavior, in fact.

Caine said:
Now your just sounding stupid.
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No. That was an adjudicated case leading to the dismissal of the officer in question.

Caine said:
Now you are stupid.
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Think I should bother reporting this abuse of power to the forum authorities?
 
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Caine said:
I rest my case, these are blanket statements made by someone who has a dislike for police in general.
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Now what would the basis of that dislike be?

Oh, yeah, because the preponderance of the evidence is that cops believe they're above the law, they abuse the law, and, oh yeah, they cover up for their fellow cops who do the same.

I've seen enough off duty cops to know what I'm talking about here. I also knew a few in their high school days, and every single one of them shared two common characteristics: average intelligence and a tendency to bully people.
 
Update:

Charges Dropped Against BoobBOSTON (AP) -- Prosecutors dropped a disorderly conduct charge Tuesday against prominent black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr., who was arrested after forcing his way into his own house in what he and other blacks say was an outrageous but all-too-common example of how police treat them.

The city of Cambridge called the arrest "regrettable and unfortunate," and police and Gates agreed that dropping the charge was a just resolution -- though not one that quelled the anger of one of America's top academics.

"I'm outraged," Gates said in extensive comments made to TheRoot.com, a Web site he oversees. "I can't believe that an individual policeman on the Cambridge police force would treat any African-American male this way, and I am astonished that this happened to me; and more importantly I'm astonished that it could happen to any citizen of the United States, no matter what their race.
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Why, are blacks a superior race deserving special consideration?

That inherently racist statement eliminates any presumption of innocence I'd give this clod.

"There are 1 million black men in the prison system, and on Thursday I became one of them," he said.
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No.

The "prison system" is the set of state-run incarceration facilities suitable to long term (more than a year) warehousing of convicted criminals.

That boy was held in jail, not prison. But check this out, evidence that his little "outrage" was possibly premeditated, and his "lock out", too.

Gates, 58, is director of Harvard's W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research and is a documentary host. He was arrested upon his return home from China, where he working on his latest film. He said he's now inspired to work on a documentary about racial profiling.
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Now he's got hisself ready made commercials.
 
justabubba said:
from the cited article of the OP, it appears gates was INSIDE his home
he provided the requested identification
and THEN he was arrested
appears that the cops did not appreciate that gates both knew and asserted his rights

the city of cambridge will soon make gates a wealthier man
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Did you happen to read the part where Gates walked outside AFTER the police officer who was leaving and continued to curse him?

At that point, its disorderly conduct, especially when people on the street have to stop and look at this crazy man acting a fool.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
If the damn cops don't like the negative connotation of the word quota, they should stop giving their patrolmen quotas to meet.

It's as simple as that.



No, it's a managerial method used by incompetents to count beans and rake in revenue. Lord knows there's enough damn fools on the streets to keep any conscientious cop busy all day, there's absolutely no need for the boobs at the station house to be setting quotas, which, as you say, are then used by the guilty to blame the cops.

I'm not going to blame the cops on the street for that, no. I can't name one time I've been stopped that I didn't deserve it, except for that one podunk town in Utah where the speed limit dropped to thirty five from fifty five for a hundred yards on an open street, but I was the passenger that time.




Nope, fairly common cop behavior, in fact.



No. That was an adjudicated case leading to the dismissal of the officer in question.



Think I should bother reporting this abuse of power to the forum authorities?
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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Now what would the basis of that dislike be?

Oh, yeah, because the preponderance of the evidence is that cops believe they're above the law, they abuse the law, and, oh yeah, they cover up for their fellow cops who do the same.

I've seen enough off duty cops to know what I'm talking about here. I also knew a few in their high school days, and every single one of them shared two common characteristics: average intelligence and a tendency to bully people.
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:2funny::2bigcry::2bigcry:
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Update:
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The update information is just pathetic.

All it tells black people in America is that if you scream loud enough about racism your charges will be dropped.

Even if they were legitimate.
 
Caine said:
Did you happen to read the part where Gates walked outside AFTER the police officer who was leaving and continued to curse him?

At that point, its disorderly conduct, especially when people on the street have to stop and look at this crazy man acting a fool.
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yes. and i also notice that the city now finds that his arrest was unfortunate and inappropriate

the cops were clearly in the wrong

what part of that are you unable to see?
 
justabubba said:
yes. and i also notice that the city now finds that his arrest was unfortunate and inappropriate

the cops were clearly in the wrong

what part of that are you unable to see?
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Please, if this was some other guy, they would not have been in the wrong. They are buckling under the pressure to not 'look' racist. Simple as that.
 
americanwoman said:
Please, if this was some other guy, they would not have been in the wrong. They are buckling under the pressure to not 'look' racist. Simple as that.
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a man is in his home
he provides identification upon request
and THEN he gets arrested

and you are ok with that

must be the kool aid
 
justabubba said:
a man is in his home
he provides identification upon request
and THEN he gets arrested

and you are ok with that

must be the kool aid
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No- I'm not okay with that at all. I am just stating the truth about this situation. Do you think if Deandre Nobody from Compton got arrested for the same thing, they would drop it? Hell to the no. Gate is a prominent guy and he's going on about it and those police officers don't want the bad publicity or the hassle this will situation will cause. So they drop it.
 
It sounds as if no one read the details, - Prof. Gates DID give his license AND Harvard ID to the officer when asked. Identification was NOT the issue. Gates DID identify himself and provided evidence that was his home. But it also sounds like Gates was being obnoxious, too, brow beating the officier.

The officier had asked Gates to step outside his home, and that is the point at which Gates refused, presumably because he knew his rights better than the officer did. At least that's the story Gates is giving for his refusal to continue to cooperate after he had already identified himself, saying the officer would have needed a warrant to go any further.

I don't want to defend Gates all the way, because it did sound like he was getting huffy about it all, but still... after the officer saw the ID he should have immediately apologized for the inconvenience, turned around, and left with no further orders or questions asked.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
As EgoffTib put it: "Oh sweet irony...."
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I apologize but I can't continue to debate with someone so full of paranoia and hysteric.


What I have been wondering is why it is acceptable to jump on and criticize someone for talking bad about potheads and other people who make piss poor life choices, but it is apparently perfectly acceptable to talk crap about the people who are enforcing the laws and keeping the peace.
:roll:
 
justabubba said:
yes. and i also notice that the city now finds that his arrest was unfortunate and inappropriate

the cops were clearly in the wrong

what part of that are you unable to see?
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The part where they were in the wrong.

All I need is that police report that I read to validate my argument.

Of course, as someone mentioned, its apparently not avaliable anymore.

But it informed me of the necessary things I needed to know to make the determination that the police were NOT in the wrong.

Its just yet another race baiting racist black man who the media gives him a pass because he is black.
 
Caine said:
I apologize but I can't continue to debate with someone so full of paranoia and hysteric.
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I didn't realize there was even a debate going on. :lol:

All I saw was you attacking people who dared to question the police. You are obviously biased so the idea of any sort of reasonable debate happening is a joke.

What I have been wondering is why it is acceptable to jump on and criticize someone for talking bad about potheads and other people who make piss poor life choices, but it is apparently perfectly acceptable to talk crap about the people who are enforcing the laws and keeping the peace.
:roll:
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I guess the problem is that you see someone referring to specific instances involving specific cops and you immediately take it as an affront to cops everywhere and that's ridiculous. So no, the two really aren't comparable at all, but nice try. :2wave:
 
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