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Thread: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    It's pretty interesting that of allllll the hoopla this incident is getting, not one person has questioned the 'neighbor' who called in the "breakin by two black men with backpacks".

    Says a whole lot about refusing to grant interviews and just keeping your damn mouth shut.

    I guess I understand Gates. After years of learning to just put up with ****, sometimes you just wanna go ape**** on someone. He shoulda picked a better incident though.
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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Quote Originally Posted by NDNdancer View Post
    It's pretty interesting that of allllll the hoopla this incident is getting, not one person has questioned the 'neighbor' who called in the "breakin by two black men with backpacks".

    Says a whole lot about refusing to grant interviews and just keeping your damn mouth shut.

    I guess I understand Gates. After years of learning to just put up with ****, sometimes you just wanna go ape**** on someone. He shoulda picked a better incident though.

    sure they did:


    Gates caller didn’t cite race, police say - The Boston Globe
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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Okay I talked about this in another thread before seeing that this thread existed. I don't think this was a racist incident but rather a cop seeking retaliation for Gates being a dick. Even though I think Gates did have a right to be pissed off. First of all the witness claimed she saw two black men carrying backpacks. Gates just got back from his trip and had suitcases. How can those be mistaken for backpacks? So once the cop went into the house and indentified Gates as the rightful owner of the house it should have stopped there. The whole reason the cop was there because of suspicion of a burglary. After identifying Gates probable cause disappeared and it should have been left at that. Now Gates was pretty peeved because the officer wouldn't leave and wouldn't give identification. So yes Gates overreacted but overreacting in your home isn't a crime.

    At this point Crowley did not have enough to charge Gates on disorderly conduct because in the state of Mass it requires a disturbance in a public area where a crowd has gathered and a disruption of the peace. That's when Crowley said that Gates would have to come outside to get his ID. At this point Crowley was able to create the crime to charge Gates with as a crowd has gathered. Sure Gates was a dick but it was a bigger dick of a move by Crowley to arrest him and embarrass him in front of the neighbors.

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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Okay I talked about this in another thread before seeing that this thread existed. I don't think this was a racist incident but rather a cop seeking retaliation for Gates being a dick. Even though I think Gates did have a right to be pissed off. First of all the witness claimed she saw two black men carrying backpacks. Gates just got back from his trip and had suitcases. How can those be mistaken for backpacks? So once the cop went into the house and indentified Gates as the rightful owner of the house it should have stopped there. The whole reason the cop was there because of suspicion of a burglary. After identifying Gates probable cause disappeared and it should have been left at that. Now Gates was pretty peeved because the officer wouldn't leave and wouldn't give identification. So yes Gates overreacted but overreacting in your home isn't a crime.

    At this point Crowley did not have enough to charge Gates on disorderly conduct because in the state of Mass it requires a disturbance in a public area where a crowd has gathered and a disruption of the peace. That's when Crowley said that Gates would have to come outside to get his ID. At this point Crowley was able to create the crime to charge Gates with as a crowd has gathered. Sure Gates was a dick but it was a bigger dick of a move by Crowley to arrest him and embarrass him in front of the neighbors.



    Gates caller didn’t cite race, police say - The Boston Globe
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Okay so the media got that part wrong. But the gist of my argument had nothing to do with race. Once again Crowley had no right to make the arrest as probable cause no longer applied when he IDed Gates

    Most states have a pretty standard definition of what disorderly conduct means. There are generally 3 clauses.

    (1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct;
    (2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or
    (3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;

    Okay so if anything Gates may have reached one of the clauses in 2. But 2 alone isn't enough to arrest someone. Being inside his own home he did not fit clause 3.

    Also in Commonwealth v. Mulvey, 57 Mass. App. Ct. 579 it was determined that the presence of a police officer is not enough for a place to be considered to be a public area. Thus Gates' behavior was not considered to be public in accordance to the findings in Commonwealth v Mulvey.
    Last edited by PogueMoran; 07-27-09 at 11:11 AM.

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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    Okay so the media got that part wrong. But the gist of my argument had nothing to do with race. Once again Crowley had no right to make the arrest as probable cause no longer applied when he IDed Gates



    He wasn't arrested for the ID... He was arrested for disorderly conduct.
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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    He wasn't arrested for the ID... He was arrested for disorderly conduct.
    I understand that but did you read what I said? The disorderly conduct infraction was manufactured. At the point that he IDed Gates inside his house the officer should have left as probable cause was no longer valid. The cop could have been the bigger man here sure Gates was a dick but there are no laws making it illegal to be a dick to an officer in the comforts of your own home. The officer told him to come outside to get the cops badge number and name. The cop knew the neighbors would be wondering why the cops were at Gates' house. Once again he had no right to arrest him because there was disorderly conduct inside Gates' home.

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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    So once the cop went into the house and indentified Gates as the rightful owner of the house it should have stopped there. The whole reason the cop was there because of suspicion of a burglary. After identifying Gates probable cause disappeared and it should have been left at that.
    It should have. If Gates would have shut his fool mouth it would have. Harassing a cop for doing his job and making sure his house wasn't being robbed is not leaving well enough alone.

    Crowley did his job and Gates' response was to shout in public that Crowley was racist. Gates is the only player in this who made race an issue. Not the witness, not Crowley, not the Cambridge PD--Gates.

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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It should have. If Gates would have shut his fool mouth it would have. Harassing a cop for doing his job and making sure his house wasn't being robbed is not leaving well enough alone.

    Crowley did his job and Gates' response was to shout in public that Crowley was racist. Gates is the only player in this who made race an issue. Not the witness, not Crowley, not the Cambridge PD--Gates.
    Once again there is no law making it illegal to be a dick to an officer while in your own home. He was not in public when shouting at the officer. He was in his own home. Even then it was not lawful for the officer to arrest Gates outside for an argument that happened within his own home. As I stated above Gates did not fit the 3 clauses of Disorderly Conduct. The police officer being on the scene did not make this a public disturbance according to the findings in Commonwealth V Mulvey.

    You can call an officer in your own home a son of a bitch if you want to and there's no law against it. The fact remains once probable cause vanished the officer had no cause to arrest Gates no matter what he said in the confines of his own home. That's also the probable reason the charges were dropped.

    Once the cop made sure Gates' house wasn't being robbed, the cop's job was over. He was obligated to leave and provide his badge number and ID when asked by Gates. Instead he told Gates to come outside to get it so he could arrest him on a trumped up disorderly conduct charge.
    Last edited by PogueMoran; 07-27-09 at 12:13 PM.

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    Re: Top scholar Gates arrested in Mass., claims racism

    Quote Originally Posted by PogueMoran View Post
    You can call an officer in your own home a son of a bitch if you want to and there's no law against it. The fact remains once probable cause vanished the officer had no cause to arrest Gates no matter what he said in the confines of his own home. That's also the probable reason the charges were dropped.
    And when you call that same officer a racist at the top of your lungs in public it's called disturbing the peace.

    Game, set, match, Crowley.

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