• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Europeans funding 'Breaking the Silence'

Picaro

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2006
Messages
585
Reaction score
106
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
A day after releasing a damning report on Operation Cast Lead, and amid accusations that it is operating without transparency, the group Breaking the Silence on Thursday presented The Jerusalem Post with its donor list for the year 2008, which included several European governments.

On Wednesday, Breaking the Silence released a report including testimonies from 26 unnamed soldiers who participated in the campaign and which claimed that the IDF used Gazans as human shields, improperly fired incendiary white phosphorous shells over civilian areas and used overwhelming firepower that caused needless deaths and destruction.

On Thursday, military sources and NGO Monitor - a Jerusalem-based research organization - raised suspicions regarding Breaking the Silence's setup as a nonprofit limited company and not an amuta, or nonprofit organization. The difference is that an amuta is required by law to publicly declare the identity of its donors. A limited company is not always required to do so.

... and more.

Jerusalem Post

Also of note in the article:

One senior security official noted the Breaking the Silence report came fast on the heels of highly critical reports issued earlier this month by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the International Committee of the Red Cross, giving the impression that the groups were coordinating the timing of their reports to "magnify their impact."

The Breaking the Silence report was for the most part based on hearsay and rumor, and not facts, the senior security official said.

Meanwhile, reports that Human Rights Watch used its work against Israel, and its withstanding "pro-Israel pressure groups" as a selling point to solicit funds in Saudi Arabia, are creating waves in the blogosphere, with Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic monthly asking HRW's executive director Ken Roth in an e-mail exchange if this was indeed what the group did in Riyadh in May.

Following the quashed internal investigations at the BBC and the Guardian on their anti-semitic reporting a year or so back, this comes as no surprise, either.
 
Following the quashed internal investigations at the BBC and the Guardian on their anti-semitic reporting a year or so back, this comes as no surprise, either.

I wish i had a 'playing the anti semetic card - Guaranteed to win the argument if drawn out' :roll:

I don't see Pro Israelis moaning at media like FOX who are in favour of them and against Palestinians. Just because BBC is one of the biggest, oldest and most influential.
 
Last edited:
Classic right wing tactic of attacking the messengers instead of dealing with the reality of the situation. So what if the organisation has received money from outside Israel?
 
*pro-Israeli post. Thanks from Tasha.*

Nothing will ever come of this as long as Israel is a tactical bicep in the middle-east.
 
Classic right wing tactic of attacking the messengers instead of dealing with the reality of the situation. So what if the organisation has received money from outside Israel?

Lefties are no different. Lefties mock Fox and any other news source they dislike.
 
I wish i had a 'playing the anti semetic card - Guaranteed to win the argument if drawn out' :roll:

Yes, it is frustrating for critics of Israel when they have nothing to argue, just monotonous repeats of anti-semitic 'talking points'; I agree with you here.

I don't see Pro Israelis moaning at media like FOX who are in favour of them and against Palestinians. Just because BBC is one of the biggest, oldest and most influential.

I don't watch FOX, so maybe you can find somebody who does. The BBC is open to criticism of it's heavily biased reporting, just like any other 'news' agency, regardless of it's size, and certainly because of it's 'influence'.
 
Classic right wing tactic of attacking the messengers instead of dealing with the reality of the situation. So what if the organisation has received money from outside Israel?

After years of Israel's defenders being accused of being on somebody's payroll, it's obvious why receiving aid from governments to spread every lie possible is important, whether faux 'peace activists' like it or not is of no consequence.

Regarding 'dealing with the reality of the situation', this is hilarious hyperbole, coming from somebody who adamantly refuses to deal with the reality of the situation.
 
After years of Israel's defenders being accused of being on somebody's payroll, it's obvious why receiving aid from governments to spread every lie possible is important, whether faux 'peace activists' like it or not is of no consequence.

Regarding 'dealing with the reality of the situation', this is hilarious hyperbole, coming from somebody who adamantly refuses to deal with the reality of the situation.

First off Israel's "defenders" have been hiding behind the "anti semitic" card since 1948 and continue to do so. That means any criticism of them or Israel usually is brushed off with that card regardless of the facts which is exactly what you are doing here and I suspect that after this post the "anti-semitic" card will be thrown around as usual by the usual suspects and the thread will yet again be dead.

The reality of the situation is pretty simple. We KNOW that the IDF have used human shields before during their clearing of Palestinian houses.. how do we know this? Because it was caught on freaking camera a few years ago in the west bank. And there the IDF had the balls to first dismiss the accusation but when they saw the pictures they had to backtrack big time. It is a proven "technique" by the IDF. We also know that the IDF used white phospherous during the Gaza operations in civilian areas.. how do we know this? Because it was caught by every freaking camera focused on Gaza at the IDF controlled "media hotspots". But the IDF also here denied using the stuff in civilian areas.. Dude... most of the fighting was in civilian areas.... and the smoking rocks on the streets of Gaza were not lava rocks from lava lamps.

In both cases, the IDF have denied any wrong doing... so one has to ask who is telling the truth here. The IDF or the critics? Considering that the IDF has been caught several times in very questionable rebuttles and the only investigations that have been done, have been done by the IDF and of course the IDF cleared the IDF of any wrong doing....

Sorry I do not trust the IDF more than I trust Hamas or any of the militant radicals in the area, and considering the amount of independent information coming out about this and other war crimes by the IDF, then the only ones that can seriously believe that the IDF are "angels" have to be hard core pro Israel freaks.
 
First off Israel's "defenders" have been hiding behind the "anti semitic" card since 1948 and continue to do so. That means any criticism of them or Israel usually is brushed off with that card regardless of the facts which is exactly what you are doing here and I suspect that after this post the "anti-semitic" card will be thrown around as usual by the usual suspects and the thread will yet again be dead..
There are enough anti-semites in this world for the anti-semitism to be a real and existing problem, just like racism towards blacks and racism towards any other group.
When you're saying that all of the pro-Israelis 'have been hiding behind the "anti semitic" card since 1948', not only do you try to paint an unreal situation, as if the anti-semitism problem doesn't exist, and that people are just bluffing it, you're also partaking in a generalization of an entire opinion group. (Pro-Israelis)
This is coming from a person who seems to care for human rights, and I don't know if to call it hypocrisy or simply a disgusting behavior.
The reality of the situation is pretty simple. We KNOW that the IDF have used human shields before during their clearing of Palestinian houses.. how do we know this? Because it was caught on freaking camera a few years ago in the west bank. And there the IDF had the balls to first dismiss the accusation but when they saw the pictures they had to backtrack big time. It is a proven "technique" by the IDF.
False, the IDF did not admit using human shields as a common tactic, this is far from being the truth.
e also know that the IDF used white phospherous during the Gaza operations in civilian areas
The white phospherous rounds had clearly targetted buildings that were used by Hamas.
most of the fighting was in civilian areas....
You clearly do not know the definition of a civilian area.
Once the local government(AKA the terrorist organization of Hamas) had decided to make a military outpost/zone out of the area, it is no longer a civilian area.
Considering that the IDF has been caught several times in very questionable rebuttles
Pallywood works hard to satisfy its viewers.
Those people who 'capture the IDF crimes' on camera are the same ones who criticize it.
A biased capture of events cannot be called a documentary, but rather, a fiction.
Sorry I do not trust the IDF more than I trust Hamas or any of the militant radicals in the area
Fine with me, I do not trust European far-leftists radicals more than I trust Hamas or any other inhuman terrorist being. ;)
then the only ones that can seriously believe that the IDF are "angels" have to be hard core pro Israel freaks.
But apparently, they're not the only ones.
 
Last edited:
There are enough anti-semites in this world for the anti-semitism to be a real and existing problem, just like racism towards blacks and racism towards any other group.
When you're saying that all of the pro-Israelis 'have been hiding behind the "anti semitic" card since 1948', not only do you try to paint an unreal situation, as if the anti-semitism problem doesn't exist, and that people are just bluffing it, you're also partaking in a generalization of an entire opinion group. (Pro-Israelis)
This is coming from a person who seems to care for human rights, and I don't know if to call it hypocrisy or simply a disgusting behavior.

And you are living in the twilight zone. There is no doubt there is anti-semitism in the world but that is not what I am talking about.

Time and time again Israel has broken international laws, human rights and the rights of its own citizens and has been called on it. Time and time again the critics have been slammed as anti-semites or worse, even on these boards. I know, I have been slammed as one more than often and hence I stay clear of these threads normally.

Time and time again the holocaust has been brought up in official interviews by the Israeli government in situations where you have to ask yourself.. what the hell is the relevance!? A rocket fired from Gaza into Israel making a hole in a field and the official Israeli government spokesman has bring up the holocaust? Time and time again Israel has gotten away with stuff that the world and the US has condemned other nations for doing. It has nothing to do with anti-semitism but has everything to do with Israel playing the anti-semitism card in conjunction with the holocaust guilt card to deflect attention away from their actions.. after all no one likes being labled a Nazi by a Jew ... it is political suicide in any country in the West.

False, the IDF did not admit using human shields as a common tactic, this is far from being the truth.

No they denied it at first. They attacked the news organisations claiming it, and the Palestinians of course. They called them every name in the book (in a polite way of course), but when actual video surfaced of the IDF using this tactic, then the IDF suddenly went the typical way "isolated incident" bla bla.. bull****. The complaints of these tactics have come from all over the West Bank at the time and since from Gaza.. I know fully well that the IDF cant official condone such tactics, just as the US officially did not torture, but everyone knows it is happening.

The white phospherous rounds had clearly targetted buildings that were used by Hamas.

LOL, yea, Hamas was in UN buildings, schools, and every building on many many many streets of Gaza.. You do know that Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth right?

You clearly do not know the definition of a civilian area.

Where civilians are.. aka residential areas and commercial areas (shops and markets) is the narrowest definition you can get.

Once the local government(AKA the terrorist organization of Hamas) had decided to make a military outpost/zone out of the area, it is no longer a civilian area.

Ahh the ultimate excuse.. and clearly shows the hypocrisy of the Isreali side. Then we can use the same excuse for the rockets hitting Israel. Since every Israeli has to serve in the IDF and can be called up at any time, then all areas of Israel is military area, and hence not civilian areas. Hence rockets and attacks against Israel are against military targets, and hence not terror.. Hence there is no terror against Israel.

Pallywood works hard to satisfy its viewers.
Those people who 'capture the IDF crimes' on camera are the same ones who criticize it.
A biased capture of events cannot be called a documentary, but rather, a fiction.

Typical excuse by the IDF and its supporters. I guess all the worlds media viewing from official IDF view platforms during the Gaza offensive are "pallywood" now, since they all reported and showed clear use of white phospherous in civilian areas. Not to mention hospital reports, UN reports, and other NGO reports on the issue.. but hey they are all Jew haters right? Plus the very fact that the IDF limits journalists access to the West Bank (kinda funny considering the official line is that the Palestinians control their own areas...), then exposing the abuse by the IDF of Palestinians has to come from "dubious sources" as you would say. But no matter what, you can not stage or "cut together" the IDF soldiers pushing a Palestinian man ahead of them while going into apartments... nore can you hide the fact when IDF soldiers do abuse Palestinians in front of international media..

Fine with me, I do not trust European far-leftists radicals more than I trust Hamas or any other inhuman terrorist being. ;)
But apparently, they're not the only ones.

Considering the far leftist radicals mostly died out in the 1970s and 1980s or are behind bars, then it is easy "not to trust" them.. since they are not around any more.

Listen I do not give the Palestinian radicals any free pass what so ever. Their actions against Israel and civilians are pathetic and I condemn them to the fullest. However I also do not give Israel a free pass based on religious or historical facts, like many do in especially the US.. if Israel tortures, bombs civilian areas, kills civilians and does other stuff that are against international law (not to mention local law) or even worse does the same as the Palestinians.. then I believe we should call out Israel and question where or not it is not best to cut them loose along with the Palestinians and just let them fight it out. Both sides are radical fanatics that have zero intention of wanting peace for their citizens.
 
Apocalypse, this is not a conventional war of an army against another army. They are breaking the rules and so is the IDF. The IDF has no choice but to break those rules because of the nature of the conflict ? fine, but at least admit it .
 
Both sides are radical fanatics that have zero intention of wanting peace for their citizens.
Lol. And the circle is unbroken. Every week you astound and astonish.
 
And you are living in the twilight zone.
Yeah? Well you live in Europe.
Time and time again Israel has broken international laws, human rights and the rights of its own citizens and has been called on it.
Israel was never convicted for any alleged war crime.
Time and time again the critics have been slammed as anti-semites or worse, even on these boards. I know, I have been slammed as one more than often and hence I stay clear of these threads normally.
Even if it does happen, you still just generalized an entire opinion group as if that's what every pro-Israeli does.
I for one only call out on real anti-Semites, and I've already seen some members that match this definition.
While being anti-Israeli does not mean being an anti-Semite, the two are commonly bundled together by many people in the world.
You can see how many non-Israelis Jews have been attacked after operation cast lead or the 2006 Lebanon war.
Time and time again the holocaust has been brought up in official interviews by the Israeli government in situations where you have to ask yourself.. what the hell is the relevance!? A rocket fired from Gaza into Israel making a hole in a field and the official Israeli government spokesman has bring up the holocaust?
I want reference for those 'times and times again'.
Show me when did the Israeli government do that.
Time and time again Israel has gotten away with stuff that the world and the US has condemned other nations for doing.
Such as?
No they denied it at first. They attacked the news organisations claiming it, and the Palestinians of course. They called them every name in the book (in a polite way of course), but when actual video surfaced of the IDF using this tactic, then the IDF suddenly went the typical way "isolated incident" bla bla.. bull****.
Whatcha talking about?
The IDF investigates whenever a rumor of a misdeed arises.
The times it finds that individuals have indeed done so, it takes it to the court, and the individuals are punished.
That's how every western army in the world works.
LOL, yea, Hamas was in UN buildings, schools, and every building on many many many streets of Gaza..
...The fact that you find it to be funny shows how non-connected you are to reality.
Hamas does indeed fire from UN buildings, schools and what not.
And just for the protocol, so'z Hezbollah.
You do know that Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth right?
No it isn't. :lol:
And you can only blame the Palestinians for making so many children, it shouldn't be anyone else fault.
Where civilians are.. aka residential areas and commercial areas (shops and markets) is the narrowest definition you can get.
If it's a military outpost, it's a military zone.
As simple as it gets.
Ahh the ultimate excuse.. and clearly shows the hypocrisy of the Isreali side. Then we can use the same excuse for the rockets hitting Israel. Since every Israeli has to serve in the IDF and can be called up at any time, then all areas of Israel is military area, and hence not civilian areas. Hence rockets and attacks against Israel are against military targets, and hence not terror.. Hence there is no terror against Israel
:rofl
No, that is definitely not 'using the same logic'.
You are very uneducated on how the military works in a state where the army is compulsory.
Those who are under the military are soldiers, the rest are civilians, whether they've served in the past or not, and whether they'll serve in the future or not.
Typical excuse by the IDF and its supporters.
Typical claim for excuses by the European far-leftist extremists and their supported. (Yes, supported)
I guess all the worlds media viewing from official IDF view platforms during the Gaza offensive are "pallywood" now, since they all reported and showed clear use of white phospherous in civilian areas. Not to mention hospital reports, UN reports, and other NGO reports on the issue
They do not know better.
They base all of (and I mean all of) their results on witnesses accounts.
but hey they are all Jew haters right?
I never said it.
I find it hilarious that you need to demonize me in order to bring any drop of truth for your arguments.
That's just pathetic.
Plus the very fact that the IDF limits journalists access to the West Bank
Gaza strip, not West Bank.
But hey, I didn't expect you to know what you're talking about.
nore can you hide the fact when IDF soldiers do abuse Palestinians in front of international media
I am fully aware that some individuals have abused Palestinians and hurt their rights.
Those are punished by the law, just like in any other western army in the world.
What do you think that will happen with the marine that murdered nearly a whole family in Iraq?
He'll be punished.
Same will happen with the soldier who shot a rubber bullet in the foot of that detainee.
(Do you find the difference in the level of severity between the cases? Of course you don't. ;))
Considering the far leftist radicals mostly died out in the 1970s and 1980s or are behind bars, then it is easy "not to trust" them.. since they are not around any more.
Oh really.
So the far-left doesn't exist anymore?
Realllllly. :2razz:
Listen I do not give the Palestinian radicals any free pass what so ever. Their actions against Israel and civilians are pathetic and I condemn them to the fullest. However I also do not give Israel a free pass based on religious or historical facts, like many do in especially the US.. if Israel tortures, bombs civilian areas, kills civilians and does other stuff that are against international law (not to mention local law) or even worse does the same as the Palestinians.. then I believe we should call out Israel and question where or not it is not best to cut them loose along with the Palestinians and just let them fight it out. Both sides are radical fanatics that have zero intention of wanting peace for their citizens.
Comparing between a bomb that takes out a head-terrorist along with civilian casualties, to a suicide bomber who bombs himself up in a school bus or a mall to kill as many people as possible, because they are Israeli/Jews, is simply wrong.
Israel has never been and will never be in the terrorist's level, not even a billion light years close.
 
Last edited:
Apocalypse, this is not a conventional war of an army against another army. They are breaking the rules and so is the IDF. The IDF has no choice but to break those rules because of the nature of the conflict ? fine, but at least admit it .
I know it does its best to maintain those rules, even when the enemy are a bunch of terror-embracing civis.
 
Time and time again Israel has broken international laws, human rights and the rights of its own citizens and has been called on it. Time and time again the critics have been slammed as anti-semites or worse, even on these boards. I know, I have been slammed as one more than often and hence I stay clear of these threads normally.

.

There is a much simpler solution to this problem than you might imagine. Were you to infuse your rhetoric with a bit of fairness, desist in the one sided demonization, stop the hypocritical finger pointing, refrain from the dishonest framing techniques, stop inversing of cause and effect, and in general stop making it so patently obvious that you hate the targets that you attack to the exclusion of all else, then perhaps people would not come away with the notion that you hate them.

I find it odd that people who so routinely slam anything and everything to do with Israel --and this to the exclusion of anything else they might be slamming including honor killings, female genital mutilation, very real genocide, totalitarianism, religious oppression and various other human rights issues -- could possibly lack the introspection necessary to evaluate how their absolute mania for attacking the Jewish state comes off. How could it be called anything else?
 
I don't watch FOX, so maybe you can find somebody who does. The BBC is open to criticism of it's heavily biased reporting, just like any other 'news' agency, regardless of it's size, and certainly because of it's 'influence'.

The BBC is not heavily biased nor does it lie. Just because it doesn't bow down and go 100% on Israel's side means nothing but it is a decent media organisation.
 
The BBC is not heavily biased nor does it lie. Just because it doesn't bow down and go 100% on Israel's side means nothing but it is a decent media organisation.
As far as I know, that organization that is supposed to watch out for BBC bias has found not long ago that the head-director of the Mideast section in the BBC news was heavily biased against Israel.
 
As far as I know, that organization that is supposed to watch out for BBC bias has found not long ago that the head-director of the Mideast section in the BBC news was heavily biased against Israel.

The BBC panel? IBC?

Now for a newstation that is so biased against Israel, why would BBC itself call for a internal report and review on it?
 
The BBC is not heavily biased nor does it lie. Just because it doesn't bow down and go 100% on Israel's side means nothing but it is a decent media organisation.

The BBC is about as unbiased and honest as al Jazeera.
 
Report on BBC's anti-Israel bias will stay secret | Mail Online

Not only are they biased, but corrupt judges are helping them stonewall that fact.

BBC is pro Europe, that is clear but everything else it is supposed to be neutral
I hardly see BBC as Pro Israel or Anti Israel, you must be seeing something i am not. When it covered the gaza war, my news half the time was blocked up with israeli officals saying "their side" of the story

CNN and SKY are they also biased against Israel? How about channel 4 news? Guardian? Independent, Telegraph? It goes with the same stories seen on BBC.
 
The BBC panel? IBC?

Now for a newstation that is so biased against Israel, why would BBC itself call for a internal report and review on it?
Perhaps because despite the protestations, it was quite obvious.
 
The BBC is about as unbiased and honest as al Jazeera.

BBC is very honest. BBC has its own stringent checks, lying would mean jail

If BBC lied. Why doesn't Israel go through the regular complaints comission and sue? Don't they have the guts to challenge something they see as wrong?
 
Perhaps because despite the protestations, it was quite obvious.

When people say bias, explain what it means. I don't exactly see BBC being "obvious" about anything.

They run up pro Palestinian stories? How? Is reporting casulties on palestinian sides during a conflict with accompanying images means it is now biased against israel for printing out the facts?
How about questioning a Israeli offical about the legality or reasoning for a siege. Also bias? I see it as reporting.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom