Calif tax officials: Legal pot would rake in $1.4B

Jerry · Jul 18, 2009

Kandahar said:
I didn't devote an entire discussion to it. I made ONE two-sentence comment that said I think even drugs like meth should be legal, albeit in a more controlled setting than would be necessary for pot (in response to YOUR post about meth). YOU then made a big deal out of it and jumped down my throat.

If anyone has devoted an entire discussion to the subject, it is you. You've spent a lot more time and energy criticizing me for responding to your meth comment, than I did in actually MAKING said comment.

This thread isn't about who said what. That's something we do while discussing the issue, but it's not the issue.

Can you please address the topic or simply leave the thread?

Jerry · Jul 18, 2009

Ethereal said:
Oh, I forgot, the removal of black market incentives from society will eliminate the primary revenue source for violent street gangs and criminal organizations, subsequently eliminating them along with the most provocative career choice for young black males in urban areas not yet in a gang, thus decreasing crime in urban areas, thus increasing the economic potential and viability of such areas, thus decreasing poverty in such areas, thus decreasing the likelihood of drug abuse in such areas, thus resulting in a further drop in crime in such areas, thus further increasing the economic potential and viability of such areas, thus...:2wave:

No, you forgot links to back any of that up :2wave:

Kandahar · Jul 18, 2009

Jerry said:
This thread isn't about who said what. That's something we do while discussing the issue, but it's not the issue.

Can you please address the topic or simply leave the thread?

You've spent a lot more time in this thread discussing meth than I did in my two-sentence comment on the subject. Furthermore, when I made my two-sentence comment, you didn't address the substance of what I was saying but instead chose to devote several posts accusing me of hijacking the thread. So don't tell ME it's not about who said what.

If you don't want to address the substance of what I wrote, you can ignore it. But don't act like *I* am the one who changed the subject to meth. I'm done responding to your inane and pointless attacks. If you care to grow the **** up and actually discuss anything relevant to the thread instead of attacking me, then I might respond again.

Kisses! xoxoxoxoxo :2wave:

Jerry · Jul 18, 2009

Kandahar said:
You've spent a lot more time in this thread discussing meth than I did in my two-sentence comment on the subject. Furthermore, when I made my two-sentence comment, you didn't address the substance of what I was saying but instead chose to devote several posts accusing me of hijacking the thread. So don't tell ME it's not about who said what.

If you don't want to address the substance of what I wrote, you can ignore it. But don't act like *I* am the one who changed the subject to meth. I'm done responding to your inane and pointless attacks. If you care to grow the **** up and actually discuss anything relevant to the thread instead of attacking me, then I might respond again. Kisses! xoxoxoxoxo :2wave:

This thread isn't about me either, it's about pot, but thanks for playing :2wave:

Captain America · Jul 19, 2009

Maybe we can take some of that pot tax money and reduce hard drug usage with it. Or build more prisons for those a-holes who insist on selling hard drugs and buying hard drugs.

Pot.... good.
Hard drugs.....bad.

Any questions?

Kandahar · Jul 19, 2009

Captain America said:
Maybe we can take some of that pot tax money and reduce hard drug usage with it. Or build more prisons for those a-holes who insist on selling hard drugs and buying hard drugs.

Pot.... good.
Hard drugs.....bad.

Any questions?

Yes, I have a few.

What makes you think that building prisons for "a-holes who insist on selling hard drugs and buying hard drugs" is an effective solution? For one thing, prison is a horrible incentive for the buyers to stay clean. If they aren't deterred by the health risks and the dangers of associating with shady drug-dealers, they aren't going to be deterred by a (presumably) relatively short stay in prison. For another thing, how can you possibly believe that a prison sentence is justified for someone who isn't harming anyone by using drugs and just wants to be left alone? Sure, their drug habits might potentially cause harm to someone else...but the same could be said of plenty of legal substances. We should prosecute them for those crimes, not for buying drugs.

As for the sellers...sure, prison would deter a few of them, but there is enough profit potential in hard drugs to make it an attractive career for enough people to be a problem. I have a surefire way to deter over 99% of the people currently selling hard drugs: Legalize them. You don't see people hocking cigarettes to passersby in dark alleys, do you?

Ethereal · Jul 19, 2009

Jerry said:
They do give officers a tool to get people off the street at times.

Why do they need to be kept off the streets?

'Support this because it's benign and won't do a single thing.'

You're erroneously conflating our counter-argument with a justification for our position. We are not trying to repeal drug laws BECAUSE it's benign, that's merely a counter-point to the erroneous assumption that repealing drug laws will lead to an increase in use.

Yeah, well, if it won't change anything, then leaving it in place is just as effective and I don't have to give money to anyone.

Just because you're arguing in favor of a specific status quo does not mean you are exempt from defending your position logically. You cannot dismiss my point about the benign nature of repealing drug laws and then use that same rationale to justify keeping them in place.

That's not a proven system, that's political mantra from some random stranger online.

It's not a political mantra. It's a feasible and realistic strategy to mitigate drug abuse and crime within impoverished and underdeveloped areas in America. Just because I can't look into a crystal ball and show you with 100% certainty that it will happen does not mean you just made a good point.

Currently, we waste billions of dollars on prosecuting and incarcerating non-violent drug users (fact). If we cease prosecuting and incarcerating non-violent drug users we can use the money we save to increase police presence in areas most affected by crime (fact). Moreover, we can use money accrued from tax revenue to fund infrastructural improvements within impoverished and underdeveloped areas in America (fact).

What, exactly, is it that you find unrealistic about this proposal? Do you have any specific objections or are you just going to dismiss it out of hand again?

SO you admit that I do currently have some level of legal protection. Good. I reject the idea that I should surrender what little protection exists even more.

You erroneously assume that drug laws are the legal protection to which I'm referring. Last time I checked, police officers still arrest people for loitering, robbery, assault, breaking & entering, trespassing, harassment, etc.. You have a wide array of legal protections already in place.

Ethereal · Jul 19, 2009

Jerry said:
No, you forgot links to back any of that up :2wave:

I need a link to back up my assertion that the primary revenue source for street gangs and drug cartels is drug sales?

Jerry · Jul 19, 2009

Ethereal said:
Why do they need to be kept off the streets?

Where's the thread on hard drugs? I'll answer there.

Ethereal said:
You're erroneously conflating our counter-argument with a justification for our position. We are not trying to repeal drug laws BECAUSE it's benign, that's merely a counter-point to the erroneous assumption that repealing drug laws will lead to an increase in use.

Just because you're arguing in favor of a specific status quo does not mean you are exempt from defending your position logically. You cannot dismiss my point about the benign nature of repealing drug laws and then use that same rationale to justify keeping them in place.

My position is to legalize pot. How does repealing all drug bans serve that end better then only legalizing pot itself?

Ethereal said:
It's not a political mantra.

It's political mantra.

Ethereal said:
Currently, we waste billions of dollars on prosecuting and incarcerating non-violent drug users (fact).

I care about the pot-heads.

Ethereal said:
If we cease prosecuting and incarcerating non-violent drug users we can use the money we save to increase police presence in areas most affected by crime (fact). Moreover, we can use money accrued from tax revenue to fund infrastructural improvements within impoverished and underdeveloped areas in America (fact).

Show me the bill dictating this budget.

Ethereal said:
What, exactly, is it that you find unrealistic about this proposal? Do you have any specific objections or are you just going to dismiss it out of hand again?

What proposal? So far I only see your posts. You haven't linked to anything yet.

Ethereal said:
You erroneously assume..

Nothing.

Jerry · Jul 19, 2009

Ethereal said:
I need a link to back up my assertion that the primary revenue source for street gangs and drug cartels is drug sales?

You need to be told?

After you gleefully link all your best material, I'm going to dismiss everything which is not about pot.

Ethereal · Jul 19, 2009

Have a good day.

Jerry · Jul 19, 2009

Ethereal said:
Have a good day.

You too :2wave:

If you need another ride just let me know.

Ethereal · Jul 19, 2009

Jerry said:
You too :2wave:

If you need another ride just let me know.

I'm just looking for an honest and constructive dialouge. You just want to bicker and nitpick. You probably had a bad day or something...:2wave:

Jerry · Jul 19, 2009

Ethereal said:
I'm just looking for an honest and constructive dialouge. You just want to bicker and nitpick. You probably had a bad day or something...:2wave:

No I want the last word :lol:

Captain America · Jul 19, 2009

Richard Nixon said:
Marijuana is killing our children and giving feminists power. It is also financing communism and killing our freedom.

Vote Reagan!

You can't be serious. :rofl

Love your sense of humor though. :2wave:

That's so "out there" I had to laugh.

Truth be known, making pot illegal is a freedom killer and the only people it is financing is politicians and criminals (same difference.)

Get with the times man. The old "commies are under your bed waiting to take over" propaganda has now been replaced with "terrorists are under your bed."

:mrgreen:

Captain America · Jul 19, 2009

Kandahar said:
Yes, I have a few.

What makes you think that building prisons for "a-holes who insist on selling hard drugs and buying hard drugs" is an effective solution? For one thing, prison is a horrible incentive for the buyers to stay clean. If they aren't deterred by the health risks and the dangers of associating with shady drug-dealers, they aren't going to be deterred by a (presumably) relatively short stay in prison. For another thing, how can you possibly believe that a prison sentence is justified for someone who isn't harming anyone by using drugs and just wants to be left alone? Sure, their drug habits might potentially cause harm to someone else...but the same could be said of plenty of legal substances. We should prosecute them for those crimes, not for buying drugs.

As for the sellers...sure, prison would deter a few of them, but there is enough profit potential in hard drugs to make it an attractive career for enough people to be a problem. I have a surefire way to deter over 99% of the people currently selling hard drugs: Legalize them. You don't see people hocking cigarettes to passersby in dark alleys, do you?

Q. What makes you think that building prisons for "a-holes who insist on selling hard drugs and buying hard drugs" is an effective solution?

A. I never said it was an "effective" solution. An effective solution would be a bullet between their eyes, but I digress.

For one thing, prison is a horrible incentive for the buyers to stay clean. If they aren't deterred by the health risks and the dangers of associating with shady drug-dealers, they aren't going to be deterred by a (presumably) relatively short stay in prison.

Whatever. It's not my concern whether or not they are deterred by common sense and lack of freedom. I just want them put away. Prison is the best place for them if they intend on trying to sell hard drugs to my children or my neighbors children. They are much safer there than they would be if I got ahold of them.

For another thing, how can you possibly believe that a prison sentence is justified for someone who isn't harming anyone by using drugs and just wants to be left alone?

They are the cash flow that pays people to go out in the streets and do more violent crimes. If hard drugs grew on trees and users didn't have to support violent criminals in order to get their fix, I could care less if they want to hole up in a closet and shoot dope into their veins until their teeth fall out and they die. Not my problem.

"but the same could be said of plenty of legal substances."

Now THAT we can agree on. :2wave: we live in a society where we can go but a bottle of whiskey on nearly every street corner even though it is killing people right and left. All the while, pot is illegal. Yes. We do have double standards in this country that do not make any logical sense.

I have a surefire way to deter over 99% of the people currently selling hard drugs:

So do I.

However, my way is not found to be acceptable by most pablum pukin' bleeding hearts and liberals. That's probably a good thing. I dunno. I'd just as soon put them all 6' under myself. But that's just me.

Picaro · Jul 19, 2009

The taxes on weed won't amount to much after legalization, except maybe in the short term, because most people with any sense(imillia) will be immediately sending orders to these people ...

Dutch Seed Sellers

.. and growing their own. Nobody will be buying Mexican trash weed or imports, and domestic growers these days tend to be working for criminal biker gangs and worse, not the sort of 'business men' most people like being associated with, legal or not, as they will still be dominating the industry.

The Dutch have top notch products, having been at it a long time, and are better then the domestic underground farmers.

Ethereal · Jul 19, 2009

Picaro said:
The taxes on weed won't amount to much after legalization, except maybe in the short term, because most people with any sense(imillia) will be immediately sending orders to these people ...

Dutch Seed Sellers

.. and growing their own. Nobody will be buying Mexican trash weed or imports, and domestic growers these days tend to be working for criminal biker gangs and worse, not the sort of 'business men' most people like being associated with, legal or not, as they will still be dominating the industry.

The Dutch have top notch products, having been at it a long time, and are better then the domestic underground farmers.

http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/miron/files/budget_2008.pdf

The report estimates that legalizing drugs would save roughly $44.1 billion per year in government expenditure on enforcement of prohibition. $30.3 billion of this savings would accrue to state and local governments, while $13.8 billion would accrue to the federal government. Approximately $12.9 billion of the savings would results from legalization of marijuana, $19.3 billion from legalization of cocaine and heroin, and $11.6 from legalization of other drugs.

The report also estimates that drug legalization would yield tax revenue of $32.7 billion annually, assuming legal drugs are taxed at rates comparable to those on alcohol and tobacco. Approximately $6.7 of this revenue would result from legalization of marijuana, $22.5 billion from legalization of cocaine and heroin, and $3.5 from legalization of other drugs.

Jerry · Jul 20, 2009

Ethereal said:
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/miron/files/budget_2008.pdf

The report estimates that legalizing drugs would save roughly $44.1 billion per year in government expenditure on enforcement of prohibition. $30.3 billion of this savings would accrue to state and local governments, while $13.8 billion would accrue to the federal government. Approximately $12.9 billion of the savings would results from legalization of marijuana, $19.3 billion from legalization of cocaine and heroin, and $11.6 from legalization of other drugs.

The report also estimates that drug legalization would yield tax revenue of $32.7 billion annually, assuming legal drugs are taxed at rates comparable to those on alcohol and tobacco. Approximately $6.7 of this revenue would result from legalization of marijuana, $22.5 billion from legalization of cocaine and heroin, and $3.5 from legalization of other drugs.

I'm happy to pay the money :2wave:

Ethereal · Jul 20, 2009

Jerry said:
I'm happy to pay the money :2wave:

You're capable of spending 44.1 billion dollars annually?

Kushinator · Jul 20, 2009

Picaro said:
The taxes on weed won't amount to much after legalization, except maybe in the short term, because most people with any sense(imillia) will be immediately sending orders to these people ...

Dutch Seed Sellers

.. and growing their own. Nobody will be buying Mexican trash weed or imports, and domestic growers these days tend to be working for criminal biker gangs and worse, not the sort of 'business men' most people like being associated with, legal or not, as they will still be dominating the industry.

The Dutch have top notch products, having been at it a long time, and are better then the domestic underground farmers.

No, the Dutch farmers are not nearly as innovative as their American counterparts, nor is their cannabis industry for that matter. American pot is hands down, the best there is. Go to the top "cafe" in Amsterdam (Barney's IMHO) and compare their menu with that of a southern California dispensary. It's not even fair, as there are 2-3 times the amount of available cannabis, complete range of potent edibles, tinctures, etc... all with quality that blows away Barney's.

Ever been to a top notch hash bar in Holland? Didn't think so, but i know of about 20 of them in LA alone, all of which employ the newest innovations in the cannabis industry.

The most profitable business on Venice Beach is not Naked Sushi.... :2razz:

Kandahar · Jul 20, 2009

Captain America said:
A. I never said it was an "effective" solution. An effective solution would be a bullet between their eyes, but I digress.

And how do you justify murdering people who aren't harming you or anyone else in any way whatsoever?

Captain America said:
Whatever. It's not my concern whether or not they are deterred by common sense and lack of freedom. I just want them put away. Prison is the best place for them if they intend on trying to sell hard drugs to my children or my neighbors children. They are much safer there than they would be if I got ahold of them.

Except we weren't talking about people selling drugs to children. We were talking about drug users and drug dealers in general. Why the straw man?

Captain America said:
They are the cash flow that pays people to go out in the streets and do more violent crimes. If hard drugs grew on trees and users didn't have to support violent criminals in order to get their fix, I could care less if they want to hole up in a closet and shoot dope into their veins until their teeth fall out and they die. Not my problem.

If drugs were LEGALIZED than they WOULDN'T be supporting violent criminals when they got their fix. They'd be supporting their local 7/11.

Captain America said:
So do I. However, my way is not found to be acceptable by most pablum pukin' bleeding hearts and liberals. That's probably a good thing. I dunno. I'd just as soon put them all 6' under myself. But that's just me.

I'm waiting for some kind of valid justification for why exchanging drugs for money warrants the death penalty. :roll:

Captain America · Jul 21, 2009

Kanda, why would you defend these dealers of death yet take exception to someone who wants to deal death back to them?

According to you (and Ethreal,) by all appearances, you are against even the most sensible laws so why would my position on putting the guys away go against your beliefs?

You can defend these meth hounds all you want. But I know them to be the lowest of low and they are a waste of oxygen IMO.

You guys defending them, as you do, makes wonder about you.

They say "birds of a feather......" But I could be wrong.

Just sayin'...... :roll:

Scarecrow Akhbar · Jul 22, 2009

Captain America said:
Kanda, why would you defend these dealers of death yet take exception to someone who wants to deal death back to them?

According to you (and Ethreal,) by all appearances, you are against even the most sensible laws so why would my position on putting the guys away go against your beliefs?

You can defend these meth hounds all you want. But I know them to be the lowest of low and they are a waste of oxygen IMO.

You guys defending them, as you do, makes wonder about you.

They say "birds of a feather......" But I could be wrong.

Just sayin'...... :roll:

And just why are meth cookers and dealers the "lowest of the low"?

Oh, that's right, because the government imprisons anyone caught making or selling the stuff, and thus only people willing to risk prison get into that industry.

How did Al Capone and Joe Kennedy get rich? Yes, that's right, the government created a black market and the criminals got rich.

Captain America · Jul 22, 2009

Perhaps. But I'm a simple man and the first to admit that I'm not the smartest fella on two legs.

Simply put. I want anyone remotely connected to the meth, crack, and/or the heroin culture either put away, or dead.

We ain't talkin' pot here. We're talking poison. I want it eradicated no matter what it takes.

You see, I know a lil' sumpin', sumpin' about crystal.

I hate it, and those who take part in it. I want it (and them) gone.

I know I will never get what I want. But I want it anyways.

Calif tax officials: Legal pot would rake in $1.4B

Jerry

Jerry

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

Jerry

Captain America

Jedi Master

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

Ethereal

Ethereal

Jerry

Jerry

Ethereal

Jerry

Ethereal

Jerry

Captain America

Jedi Master

Captain America

Jedi Master

Picaro

Ethereal

Jerry

Ethereal

Kushinator

I'm not-low all the time

Kandahar

Enemy Combatant

Captain America

Jedi Master

Scarecrow Akhbar

Captain America

Jedi Master