Page 30 of 31 FirstFirst ... 2028293031 LastLast
Results 291 to 300 of 307

Thread: House bill would make health care a right

  1. #291
    Advisor LiveUninhibited's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-11-10 @ 03:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    549

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Denying people based on their inability to pay for goods and services is not arbitrary.
    It's arbitrary when the service is not a luxury but a need that can't be reliably fulfilled even through responsible behavior.


    The upward spiral of costs can be attributed to the vast majority of medical bills being paid by a third party.

    Under this system, the consumer doesnt really care how much something costs, and so those that provide the service are free to charge what they want -- the only limit to the cost is what the third parties are willing to pay, and since their resources are skewed by the number of healthy people paying into the system, they can pay a LOT more than they otherwise would, and still turn a profit.
    lol, you're suggesting it would work better under out of pocket then?

    You're assuming a pure system without copays, which isn't an inevitable feature of 3rd party pay. It is possible to put incentives for or against behaviors that demonstrate they are effective and cost-effective on both the patient and provider level. If you want to encourage doctors to do something, you make those things fee for service. If you want to cause doctors to refer less, you use capitation.

    Thus, any system that does not get rid of third-party payment does nothing to tackle the high cost of health care.

    And, in any case, you having a right does not equate to you having the right to have the means necessary to exercise that right provided to you by someone else.
    Due to the unpredictable nature of healthcare, insurance is necessary. One thing I agree with the agent on is if we get rid of 3rd party pay, we will be worse off. Where we differ is he believes the private sector is the better vehicle for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Exactly. This is the problem with trying to get everyone on insurance.

    Imagine if everyone had food insurance. Would people buy hamburger meat, or would they buy filet mignon? It's obvious, people would get the filet every time if cost was not an issue.
    Healthcare isn't like food. Normal people don't wake up and say, "Wow, I really want a doctor to cut into me today." People with mental issues may want to see the doctor all the time, but that's why we need copays, especially when the visit is beyond routine prevention.

    Normal people do want the newest (that they fallaciously believe is the best) of what's available when they do need to be cut into, regardless of cost, but that's why we should ration based upon what is effective and cost-effective. And the rationing need only refer to what the government will pay for. Private insurance won't play a huge role unless the government screws up somewhere, and they probably will but not to the extent the private sector has, so I wouldn't have a problem with 2-tier. Indeed, there are alternative and better systems to Canada and Britain that are much better than ours.
    Last edited by LiveUninhibited; 07-21-09 at 04:44 AM.

  2. #292
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    It's arbitrary when the service is not a luxury but a need that can't be reliably fulfilled even through responsible behavior.
    No. Its not.
    Its NEVER arbitrary to expect EVERYONE to pay for the good and services you provide them, regardless of what those goods/services are.
    And, on the other side, its NEVER reasonable for you to expect goods and services to be provided to you for free.

    lol, you're suggesting it would work better under out of pocket then?
    Costs would lbe lower,. which is, apparently, what you're looking for.
    And so, yes.

    You're assuming a pure system without copays
    No, I am not. Nothing in my statement implies such a thing.

    And so, thus far, you have not addressed my argument that the high costs of health care is due to the third-party pay system, with the way to reduce those costs is the elimination of same.

    Due to the unpredictable nature of healthcare, insurance is necessary.
    No, It is not. As noted before, any sort of third-party pay system, including private or public insurance, is why costs are so high.

    By reducing medical costs by forcing people to pay for services themselves, costs will drop to the point that insurance is not neceessary.

    Healthcare isn't like food.
    You're right.
    Food is a necessity. Health care is a luxury.

  3. #293
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,680

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Do I have a "right" to not provide YOU healthcare?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #294
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Do I have a "right" to not provide YOU healthcare?
    This is one of the choices that the "Party of Choice" does not want you to have.

  5. #295
    Advisor Richard Nixon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Last Seen
    10-26-16 @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    473

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Do I have a "right" to not provide YOU healthcare?
    Would you buy a man dying of thrist a glass of water?

    In that same vein, would you support someone having the right not to pay the portion of their taxes that contributes to the military and survival of the US troops? Would they be unpatriotic or simply exerting their rights? I'm curious as to what your reply will be.
    www.thecaffeinemachine.com - looking for main-page political writers, so if anyone is interested send a PM (apologies if that violates any rules)

  6. #296
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nixon View Post
    Would you buy a man dying of thrist a glass of water?
    I might CHOOSE to do so.

    In that same vein, would you support someone having the right not to pay the portion of their taxes that contributes to the military and survival of the US troops?
    Apples/oranges.
    Paying for health care directly provides someone the means to exercise their right to same.
    Paying for the military does not.

  7. #297
    Advisor Richard Nixon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Last Seen
    10-26-16 @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    473

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Surely it does? Without the enormous taxes raked in by the US government the military would not be as financially effective and thus not provide a US citizen his/her right to protect his/her country. Or have I misunderstood you?
    www.thecaffeinemachine.com - looking for main-page political writers, so if anyone is interested send a PM (apologies if that violates any rules)

  8. #298
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nixon View Post
    Surely it does? Without the enormous taxes raked in by the US government the military would not be as financially effective and thus not provide a US citizen his/her right to protect his/her country. Or have I misunderstood you?
    There is a distinct difference between directly providing someone with the means to exercise their rights and protecting their ability to do so.

  9. #299
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nixon View Post
    Would you buy a man dying of thrist a glass of water?
    I probably would, but it would be wrong of me to force someone to do that.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #300
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,680

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nixon View Post
    Would you buy a man dying of thrist a glass of water?
    Yes, because I would CHOOSE to.... Not because your jack booted thugs forced me at gunpoint to.

    In that same vein, would you support someone having the right not to pay the portion of their taxes that contributes to the military and survival of the US troops? Would they be unpatriotic or simply exerting their rights? I'm curious as to what your reply will be.


    The military, is spelled out in the US Constitution, could you show me where me paying for your abortion is outlined in the USC? Thanks!
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

Page 30 of 31 FirstFirst ... 2028293031 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •