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Thread: House bill would make health care a right

  1. #251
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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nixon View Post
    How do you figure that one? Failure to enforce the law can come from a number of things and the police aren't the only avenue for punishment.
    If I'm not mistaken the Supreme Court has ruled that police are not required to protect you.

    They can't be everywhere to enforce the law, it's logistically impossible.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I addressed this previously. Look back a page or two.
    Sorry, missed that post

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes. In effect, the Constitution mandates that the government(s) provide you the means to exercise these rights by creating and supporting the vehicles necessary to do so.

    This is, however, a Constitutional mandate that creates a basic function of government, the only means through which the rights in question CAN be exercised.

    As such, these examples have no bearing whatsoever on the argument as to whether or not the government can/should provide you the means to exercise your right to health care.
    I don't understand what you're saying. Why is it okay to use taxpayer dollars to provide people with a trial by jury, which they have the right to, but it would not be okay to use taxpayer dollars to provide healthcare in the event that people have a right to healthcare?

  3. #253
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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I don't understand what you're saying. Why is it okay to use taxpayer dollars to provide people with a trial by jury, which they have the right to, but it would not be okay to use taxpayer dollars to provide healthcare in the event that people have a right to healthcare?
    Very simple, if a legal authority brings charges it is the duty of the people to prove guilt, this is done by a mandated trial, not a mandate by simple policy law, but the U.S. constitution, our social contract, we the people decided in the very beginning that innocence is to be presumed until proven otherwise and that defendents have the right to request trial, if such request is made at hearing then it must be provided by law, thus it is the duty of the government to pay for the costs associated with such. The difference with healthcare is that it falls in a catagory not compliant with the tenth amendment, it is neither a right or duty of the federal government to provide healthcare, thus it falls back to the states legally to decide whether said responsibility is to be taken on by that particular state government. This being said, a bill cannot make healthcare a right, only a constitutional amendment can, this is what makes it so great, if an amendment should pass, then that means the states have ceded said authority to the federal government via agreement and it would then become legal, unfortunately, we have politicians who don't want to go this route because it's harder for them.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  4. #254
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Very simple, if a legal authority brings charges it is the duty of the people to prove guilt, this is done by a mandated trial, not a mandate by simple policy law, but the U.S. constitution, our social contract, we the people decided in the very beginning that innocence is to be presumed until proven otherwise and that defendents have the right to request trial, if such request is made at hearing then it must be provided by law, thus it is the duty of the government to pay for the costs associated with such. The difference with healthcare is that it falls in a catagory not compliant with the tenth amendment, it is neither a right or duty of the federal government to provide healthcare, thus it falls back to the states legally to decide whether said responsibility is to be taken on by that particular state government. This being said, a bill cannot make healthcare a right, only a constitutional amendment can, this is what makes it so great, if an amendment should pass, then that means the states have ceded said authority to the federal government via agreement and it would then become legal, unfortunately, we have politicians who don't want to go this route because it's harder for them.
    I realize that, I was speaking in the abstract. Say there was a constitutional amendment to make healthcare a bona fide right. Goobie was saying that it wouldn't be comparable to trial by jury, and that it would be slavery to use tax dollars for this purpose. I just didn't follow his reasoning

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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    I realize that, I was speaking in the abstract. Say there was a constitutional amendment to make healthcare a bona fide right. Goobie was saying that it wouldn't be comparable to trial by jury, and that it would be slavery to use tax dollars for this purpose. I just didn't follow his reasoning
    I don't get that from his writings, moreso this is dealing with a bill created right, which is dangerously incompatible with our fundamental legal protocol. I'll let Gobie answer to his intent however.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    in sweden all healtcare is tax financed, and everyone has the right to free healthcare

  7. #257
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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Congratulations, it only took you ten posts to lose all credibility with me, I'm done, you are a true believer and don't care about protocol as long as you get your way, there is nothing to discuss, you are wrong. Good bye.
    My mission isn't to gain credibility with insurance agents, it is to force them into another line of work that doesn't kill people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You DO have a right to a car, as much as you have a right to any other piece of property, and everyone has access to that right, as anyone can own a car.
    Just like health care.
    Owning a car is a right. Everyone has that right.
    Driving a car -- on public roads -- is a privilege.
    Health care is a right. Everyone has that right.
    Health care -- paid for by someone else -- is a privilege.
    Technically correct on the car idea, but of what use is a car if you cannot drive it on public roads? That's as stupid as telling gay people to marry the opposite sex, but that's another thread.

    Having something "paid for by somebody else" isn't really a criteria for privilege, as lawyers appointed by the state to defend you are paid for by somebody else.

    Make up your mind -- do you want to give everyone the privilege of free health care, or not?
    There is no inconsistency here. NHI, and having access to healthcare, does not and cannot mean that healthcare is "free," it's still a matter of who pays for it. I advocate to use the rich via our progressive tax system to make sure the poor can access it, but that doesn't mean I would oppose copays that they can afford to discourage overutilization, or VATs to make people who make unhealthy choices in food or drink pay for it as well.

  8. #258
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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    There is no inconsistency here. NHI, and having access to healthcare, does not and cannot mean that healthcare is "free," it's still a matter of who pays for it. I advocate to use the rich via our progressive tax system to make sure the poor can access it, but that doesn't mean I would oppose copays that they can afford to discourage overutilization, or VATs to make people who make unhealthy choices in food or drink pay for it as well.

    So you support a Robin Hood style government?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So you support a Robin Hood style government?
    One could argue that anybody who supports progressive taxation does. Of course it can be taken too far, but there's nothing wrong with diminishing returns for greater income as long as a balance is struck. That's where the real challenge comes.

  10. #260
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    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    One could argue that anybody who supports progressive taxation does. Of course it can be taken too far, but there's nothing wrong with diminishing returns for greater income as long as a balance is struck. That's where the real challenge comes.
    There's no balance about it. What are the two sides to balance?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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