Page 25 of 31 FirstFirst ... 152324252627 ... LastLast
Results 241 to 250 of 307

Thread: House bill would make health care a right

  1. #241
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Rasmussen's question asked if people supported a "government run health care company". That is not what is being proposed, and Rasmussen is dishonest.
    You're right, it's much more sinister. If you look at the language of the house proposal, it is a total takeover of the healthcare industry.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #242
    Traditionalist
    phattonez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last Seen
    12-05-17 @ 03:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,072

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    What about the right to trial by jury? Trials are publicly funded - does this constitute slavery?
    When the alternative is arbitrary justice, I'll give up some of my money. Remember though, the idea of private courts is not unheard of, even though I don't agree with it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #243
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Arguing over how things should be has nothing to do with what the law currently says, even if you could prove that the law has to be based upon original intent. Anti-abortionists should know the former.
    Nice try, but you are completely bass ackwards on this. The law currently(as you put it) says that any powers not designated to the federal government shall be held by the states, it's in the constitution. Please show me in the constitution where it says that the government has a right to run healthcare.



    Seems I hit a nerve, though that's not surprising. Private health insurance is a poor basis for coverage. You profit by denying care.
    Yeah, okay, if you say so. If companies didn't pay......they wouldn't have clients now would they?



    So you've read it? Do you really think the Constitution came about via logic rather than compromise with self-interested groups?
    Yeah, it did, if you read the writings of Locke, Jefferson, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, Adams, etc. You would see that the logic was well hashed out before the final drafting of the U.S. Constitution.



    No access is a code word for achieveable
    No, access means you have use of, plain and simple, everyone who wants access to healthcare can have it, if they do the things they need to do to pay for the SERVICE.
    and in this case proportional, we should strive to cause it to have a similar percentage impact on everybody's budget ceteris paribus and encourage, but not coerce, healthier behavior.
    But because not everyone pays taxes, then yours is a moot point, oh, and coercion is the only way that a national plan could work since the unhealthy will cost more to the system.



    Well you don't have a right to a car, but they're certainly not accessible for everybody. Driving a car is a privilege, healthcare is not.
    Healthcare is a service, do use the right terminology.

    And no, healthcare is not reliably accessible for everybody. Even beyond the uninsured, many people are underinsured.
    Underinsured huh, which campaign are you working for? Or did you just borrow that talking point from one? Let's get this straight, underinsured means someone did not do well in the planning, and with rationing that will happen, everyone will be underinsured and it will be D.C.'s fault.
    And most of them would not know it until they have a major health crisis. Most personal bankruptcies are healthcare related, 74% of healthcare bankruptcies are people who are insured.
    Bankruptcies are the result of bad financial planning, insurance is part of financial planning, so, cry me a river.



    Copays make it not free.
    And they are reasonable, what's your point.
    Taxes make it not free to everybody who pays taxes.
    Okay, what's the tax rate on insurance policies?
    Soda VATs cause people who drink a lot of soda to pay more for it too, under the idea that they will require more healthcare later.
    Coercion, I thought you said above that people shouldn't be coerced.



    It is Russian Roulette unless you're rich.
    And now class warfare, wow, just wow, I can't believe you've brought in every irrelevent UHC argument in ONE post, brilliant!
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #244
    Advisor LiveUninhibited's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-11-10 @ 03:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    549

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Nice try, but you are completely bass ackwards on this. The law currently(as you put it) says that any powers not designated to the federal government shall be held by the states, it's in the constitution. Please show me in the constitution where it says that the government has a right to run healthcare.
    You can't seem to get over the assumption that what the laws says is what is right. Procedurally, perhaps we should have a healthcare amendment first, but the Constitution has no bearing on what is right and wrong.

    Yeah, okay, if you say so. If companies didn't pay......they wouldn't have clients now would they?
    It's a matter of picking battles and citing the fine print. Most people don't really choose their healthcare anyway, as only 5% have individual plans. 51% have employer-based, and the employer's main concern has been holding down costs while offering what can be called "insurance." Obviously some are better than others, but in any case profit works against the goal of maximizing health for health insurance

    Yeah, it did, if you read the writings of Locke, Jefferson, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, Adams, etc. You would see that the logic was well hashed out before the final drafting of the U.S. Constitution.
    The Federalist Papers were pieces of well-written propaganda. It's been awhile since I've read them. Present the applicable arguments.

    No, access means you have use of, plain and simple, everyone who wants access to healthcare can have it, if they do the things they need to do to pay for the SERVICE. But because not everyone pays taxes, then yours is a moot point, oh, and coercion is the only way that a national plan could work since the unhealthy will cost more to the system.
    Actually the unhealthy will cost less to the system, because there will be less of a financial barrier to preventive care, which is cheaper for the system than intervention which they cannot legally be denied when they collapse in the ER and later declare bankruptcy after 80k debt.

    It is simply not true that everybody can plan for all contingencies. Some people, even responsible people, will get screwed under the status quo.

    Underinsured huh, which campaign are you working for? Or did you just borrow that talking point from one? Let's get this straight, underinsured means someone did not do well in the planning, and with rationing that will happen, everyone will be underinsured and it will be D.C.'s fault. Bankruptcies are the result of bad financial planning, insurance is part of financial planning, so, cry me a river.
    Underinsured means they can only afford crappy coverage, or they were not smart enough to decipher the fine print. I've read various books on healthcare. Currently reading [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Health-Policy-Thomas-Bodenheimer/dp/0071423117]Amazon.com: Understanding Health Policy (Lange): Thomas S. Bodenheimer, Kevin Grumbach: Books[/ame]



    And they are reasonable, what's your point. Okay, what's the tax rate on insurance policies? Coercion, I thought you said above that people shouldn't be coerced.
    My point was that copays can be used for NHI as well in order to discourage overutilization.

    The current tax rate for health insurance policies is zero - they have been subsidized that way since the 1940s.

    The coercion I was referring to what anticipating the fear of the government forcing healthy choices (as they already do, without NHI). Not the about taxation.

    And now class warfare, wow, just wow, I can't believe you've brought in every irrelevent UHC argument in ONE post, brilliant!
    lol, "class warfare." That's the trump card now isn't it?
    Last edited by LiveUninhibited; 07-18-09 at 01:55 AM.

  5. #245
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    You can't seem to get over the assumption that what the laws says is what is right. Procedurally, perhaps we should have a healthcare amendment first, but the Constitution has no bearing on what is right and wrong.
    Congratulations, it only took you ten posts to lose all credibility with me, I'm done, you are a true believer and don't care about protocol as long as you get your way, there is nothing to discuss, you are wrong. Good bye.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #246
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel Sanders View Post
    What about the right to trial by jury? Trials are publicly funded - does this constitute slavery?
    I addressed this previously. Look back a page or two.

  7. #247
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Nixon View Post
    The police exist to protect and serve. Protect and serve. If someone is beating me up then it is againt the law and thus up to the law to protect me.
    If you were right, then when the police failed to protect you from a crime, you could sue them.
    But, you can't sue them.
    What's that tell you?

  8. #248
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Well you don't have a right to a car, but they're certainly not accessible for everybody. Driving a car is a privilege, healthcare is not.
    You DO have a right to a car, as much as you have a right to any other piece of property, and everyone has access to that right, as anyone can own a car.
    Just like health care.
    Owning a car is a right. Everyone has that right.
    Driving a car -- on public roads -- is a privilege.
    Health care is a right. Everyone has that right.
    Health care -- paid for by someone else -- is a privilege.

    And no, healthcare is not reliably accessible for everybody.
    Sure it is. All you need to do is pay for it.
    Just like a house, a car and a gun.
    Having the right to something does not mean you get to exercise that right for free.

    Copays make it not free.
    Make up your mind -- do you want to give everyone the privilege of free health care, or not?

  9. #249
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    You can't seem to get over the assumption that what the laws says is what is right. Procedurally, perhaps we should have a healthcare amendment first, but the Constitution has no bearing on what is right and wrong.
    On the contrary.
    It is wrong for the Federal (or any other) government to do somethng it hasn't been granted the power to do.

    It is simply not true that everybody can plan for all contingencies. Some people, even responsible people, will get screwed under the status quo
    .
    Welcome to life.
    Its not my responsibility to reconcole this.

    Underinsured means they can only afford crappy coverage, or they were not smart enough to decipher the fine print.
    Again:
    Welcome to life.
    Its not my responsibility to reconcole this.

    lol, "class warfare." That's the trump card now isn't it?
    No more or less than "you want to see children starve and die"

  10. #250
    Advisor Richard Nixon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Last Seen
    10-26-16 @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    473

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If you were right, then when the police failed to protect you from a crime, you could sue them.
    But, you can't sue them.
    What's that tell you?
    How do you figure that one? Failure to enforce the law can come from a number of things and the police aren't the only avenue for punishment.
    www.thecaffeinemachine.com - looking for main-page political writers, so if anyone is interested send a PM (apologies if that violates any rules)

Page 25 of 31 FirstFirst ... 152324252627 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •