Page 22 of 31 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 220 of 307

Thread: House bill would make health care a right

  1. #211
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Under the idea that healthcare is a right, the government would be required to compensate doctors just as doctors are required to try to save somebody.
    No.... that would be the case if health care were a government-provided privilege.

    Health care is already a right.

  2. #212
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,306

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Cops, teachers, and other public servants generally have excellent coverage. Where I work, you have to either have had continuous healthcare coverage prior to their insurance or pay without getting benefits for 6 months if you had sought treatment for a preexisting condition for the past year. This is the usual policy of PacifiCare, IIRC. I had a preexisting condition but I hadnít seen the doctor in over a year. People who are self-employed or employed for a small company often cannot get coverage.



    Actually yes, some people literally will be turned away by every company, or at best, charged tens of thousands per year to be insured (the average for a family of 4 is ~$16k). No, not everybody can afford that.



    Not enough people will do it.


    Speaking of fallacies, why is everybody appealing to the authority of Jefferson instead of arguing logically?



    Again, we rely upon people who are compensated (not slaves) to protect the rights you actually believe in, so this has no bearing upon whether or not positive rights exist.

    Under the idea that healthcare is a right, the government would be required to compensate doctors just as doctors are required to try to save somebody.



    Obviously that is your opinion, but it cannot be logically based upon your first point.




    I guess that depends on if they're rich or not. Isn't Bill Gates a democrat? (:




    That's too bad. I never said the law was logical. (:



    If you read the book, you would see that our government really does not function very well not necessarily because it is large or limited, but because it is poorly designed.

    On capitalism, itís not really what we have, but capitalism is useful for a country that values wealth like ours does. However, it must be regulated and some sectors do not function well under a pure profit motive. This is especially true of health insurance.



    Feel free to present it.






    Right now it might be a good idea, as Congress and the Bush Administration failed to approve extra funding that the VHA obviously needed due to the Iraq and Afghan wars. But I assume you read the link and it proved my point.




    America is the worst on medical errors and costs in general:

    U.S. Health Care Most Expensive & Most Error Prone



    Um, all of the social positions I mentioned were libertarian and not all were liberal. People who care more about fiscal issues, such as this one, generally call me a liberal though, as Iím fiscally liberal.
    Are you going to argue that the likes of Jefferson and Madison were illogical?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  3. #213
    Advisor Birdzeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    East Coast - mid Atlantic
    Last Seen
    12-10-16 @ 09:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    341

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No.... that would be the case if health care were a government-provided privilege.

    Health care is already a right.
    Oh, really? Then please explain this:

    You may have to watch part of the video; it's an episode of "60 Minutes." The first story is about how some "charity" patients at a chemo clinic got dropped for financial reasons. They simply could not take for granted that their medical needs would be fulfilled.

    60 Minutes Full Episodes Video - 60 Minutes, 04.05.09 - CBS.com

  4. #214
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdzeye View Post
    Oh, really? Then please explain this:
    The explanation is simple:
    The right to health care is exactly the same as the right to property, the right to travel, the right to own a gun, etc -- you have the right to whatever health care you can afford to buy.

    That is:
    Having the right to X does not equate to the right to have X supplied to you for free.

  5. #215
    Advisor LiveUninhibited's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-11-10 @ 03:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    549

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Are you going to argue that the likes of Jefferson and Madison were illogical?
    Previously, I argued that they lived hundreds of years ago and could not know what we know today. Who knows what they would conclude if they had all of our history to look back upon.

    But quite frankly it is irrelevant. The purpose of debate is logical argumentation, not what founding father said what.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Don't try to pull that with me, I'm an agent. If you are literally turned away from every company you have much bigger problems than getting insured, it's time to have the coroner on stand by.
    This would explain your stance on the issue, lol.

    Because he wrote the constitution, anything that defies the founding fathers vision of the constitution is prohibited, and that is logical, trying to wriggle out of that fact is not.
    No he wrote the Declaration of Independence. There was no single author of the Constitution.

    The following book will explain how the drafting of the Constitution was more based upon compromise with slaveholders and small states than any sort of logical process:

    How democratic is the American ... - Google Books

    Also, I am no more interested in what the law says than the founding fathers were when they tried to make a new nation. Like them, we should focus on what is right and what works.

    Hasn't worked under Medicare, the VA, or Medicaid, what makes you think an increased consumer base would fix this, in fact, try getting on a priority list with your favorite physician or hospital under Medicare A, Medicare A/B, or Medicaid and you will normally be out by quota.
    I'm assuming you did not read my link to the VA, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The explanation is simple:
    The right to health care is exactly the same as the right to property, the right to travel, the right to own a gun, etc -- you have the right to whatever health care you can afford to buy.

    That is:
    Having the right to X does not equate to the right to have X supplied to you for free.
    Well it shouldn't be free, only accessible. I believe NHI should come out of the general fund, be accompanied with copays, and be supplemented by taxes on things like soda. The reason Congress is doing it as it is is because of Obama's stupid promise not to raise taxes on those below 250k. (:
    Last edited by LiveUninhibited; 07-17-09 at 01:37 PM.

  6. #216
    Professor
    WillRockwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    07-10-10 @ 09:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,950

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No, but I can show you that only 35% want government health care.

    Rasmussen Reports: The Most Comprehensive Public Opinion Data Anywhere
    Rasmussen's question asked if people supported a "government run health care company". That is not what is being proposed, and Rasmussen is dishonest.

  7. #217
    Professor
    WillRockwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    07-10-10 @ 09:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,950

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The explanation is simple:
    The right to health care is exactly the same as the right to property, the right to travel, the right to own a gun, etc -- you have the right to whatever health care you can afford to buy.

    That is:
    Having the right to X does not equate to the right to have X supplied to you for free.
    Why would anyone support a system where you only get the best health care if you are wealthy?

  8. #218
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post

    But quite frankly it is irrelevant. The purpose of debate is logical argumentation, not what founding father said what.
    Yes it absolutely is logical since they wrote the founding law, that it is incovenient for your wants towards the law is irrelevent.



    This would explain your stance on the issue, lol.
    You're right, I am informed on the matter, in fact I am focusing on life coverage right now and not currently appointed with any health companies. That I want to make money with my knowledge and you would assign the government to take that from me for your desire to see change speaks volumes about you.



    No he wrote the Declaration of Independence. There was no single author of the Constitution.
    He had a hand in it, he didn't write it in full.

    The following book will explain how the drafting of the Constitution was more based upon compromise with slaveholders and small states than any sort of logical process:

    How democratic is the American ... - Google Books
    The following book is an opinion, and not exactly a good one.



    Well it shouldn't be free, only accessible. I believe NHI should come out of the general fund, be accompanied with copays, and be supplemented by taxes on things like soda.
    Access is the code word for free, except it's only free for some, those that don't pay taxes, I am personally sick and tired of this paying for other people's lunch ****.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #219
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by LiveUninhibited View Post
    Well it shouldn't be free, only accessible.
    It IS accessible. To everyone. Right now.
    Just like houses and cars and TVs and guns -- other things you have a right to.

    I believe NHI should come out of the general fund, be accompanied with copays, and be supplemented by taxes on things like soda.
    Wait... I thought you said it should not be free..?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 07-17-09 at 02:06 PM.

  10. #220
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Last Seen
    03-22-15 @ 02:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    17,343

    Re: House bill would make health care a right

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Why would anyone support a system where you only get the best health care if you are wealthy?
    I see that you're not going to address my post, other than try to misdirect the conversation away from it.

    No surprise there, given that you have no way to counter the fact that having the right to X does not equate to the right to have X supplied to you for free.

    But, to answer YOUR post:

    Simple.
    The alternative is slavery.

Page 22 of 31 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •