Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 46

Thread: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

  1. #21
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    This does need to be done, but I quibble about whether it falls under the heading of "stimulus". RTC v2 would not alter aggregate demand in the economy.
    It would enable the banks to start loaning money to businesses and individuals again, which would stimulate demand.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    Actually, we should move in the opposite direction. As harsh as it sounds, it will move people back into the work force. Expanding unemployment insurance is essentially paying people not to work, and that is never productive.
    While that idea has some merit during good economic times...there is a time and a place for everything. Right now, there are lots of people laid off who do want to work but are unable to find a job. We need an expanded safety net to tide them over (and keep them spending money) until the recession ends.

    When the economy recovers, and there are very few people who are seriously seeking work who are unemployed for more than a couple months, *then* I would agree that we can cut back on unemployment insurance and COBRA. The potential for abuse is a lot higher during economic booms IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    If FedZilla reduced federal spending and taxes, the states could more easily finance their budgets from within their own populations. Don't give money to states, return money to where it belongs, individuals' pockets.
    Well, the states have the same problem the fed does, in terms of needing economic stimulus. But I think in many cases the states are able to address their problems better than the feds, since the problems vary from one state to another.

    This wouldn't necessarily preclude giving the money to the individuals, if that's what individual states decide to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    You could write an entire spending bill on this one thing alone--and Congress should do exactly that. I do quibble about it being stimulus, because it's not elevating aggregate demand but merely servicing existing demand--but it's spending that needs to be done.
    Ya, that can go in a separate bill if necessary. I think it's stimulus because many of the projects are ready to go, and they can start spending money and employing people right away.

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord
    Corporate income taxes should be eliminated in their entirety, and dividends taxed as ordinary income. If shareholders seek to defer taxes by keeping their share of the corporate profits at the corporate level, such accumulations of capital would be another store of savings to fuel financial activity and economic growth.
    I agree that corporate taxes should eventually be eliminated...but again, there's a time and a place for it. Until we have the deficit under control I think we should try to steer clear of more permanent tax cuts. However, given the dire state of the economy I would support a one-year reduction in the corporate tax.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-15-09 at 04:20 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #22
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 08:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    While that idea has some merit during good economic times...there is a time and a place for everything. Right now, there are lots of people laid off who do want to work but are unable to find a job. We need an expanded safety net to tide them over (and keep them spending money) until the recession ends.
    The problem is that people look for work in a certain profession, at a certain wage, et cetera. If they can find that sort of work, great, but how long of a search for that "good job" is too long?

    The longer they sit idle the more unemployment we have. Underemployment is preferable to unemployment. Trim the safety net and compel people to look more for "steady jobs" as opposed to "good jobs".


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well, the states have the same problem the fed does, in terms of needing economic stimulus. But I think in many cases the states are able to address their problems better than the feds, since the problems vary from one state to another.

    This wouldn't necessarily preclude giving the money to the individuals, if that's what individual states decide to do with it.
    If government did not take the money from individuals in the first place, the economic benefits would be far greater than taking money (taxes) and then giving it right back to individuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I agree that corporate taxes should eventually be eliminated...but again, there's a time and a place for it. Until we have the deficit under control I think we should try to steer clear of more permanent tax cuts. However, given the dire state of the economy I would support a one-year reduction in the corporate tax.
    Eliminating the double taxation effect of corporate income taxes would eliminate a lot of the financial inefficiencies introduced by companies seeking to lower their corporate tax bills. Also, eliminating the corporate income tax would attract corporate entities to the US. Both effects would facilitate economic expansion--and economic expansion raises tax revenues. After that, the burden is on government to use the marginal revenue increase to fund debt reduction rather than more spending.

  3. #23
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    There's two huge problems with this statement:

    1. We did not need and do not need economic stimulus. Economic stimulus has never worked, and there is zero evidence to give credence to the possibility of it working this time.
    Never worked? Germany 1930. So much for that argument. Furthermore, tax cuts are essentially stimulus.

    I agree with your second point.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Never worked? Germany 1930. So much for that argument. Furthermore, tax cuts are essentially stimulus.

    I agree with your second point.
    Ah...Germany...Germany...what happened to Germany...OH YEAH....it's "stimulus" was the construction of a war machine.

    Tell us, oh sage, what was going to happen to Germany once it was done building that war machine?

    Oh, that's right, an empty economy, a national debt, and massive layoffs, reprising Germany, 1922.

  5. #25
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Never worked? Germany 1930. So much for that argument. Furthermore, tax cuts are essentially stimulus.

    I agree with your second point.
    The Weimar government was a complete failure. I pray we're not headed down the same road.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #26
    Guru
    F107HyperSabr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Last Seen
    10-21-10 @ 09:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,617

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    When you understand that Bush built the uemployment mountain it's not a big surprise that Bush's gift just keeps on giving.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

  7. #27
    Guru
    F107HyperSabr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Connecticut
    Last Seen
    10-21-10 @ 09:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,617

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Ah...Germany...Germany...what happened to Germany...OH YEAH....it's "stimulus" was the construction of a war machine.

    Tell us, oh sage, what was going to happen to Germany once it was done building that war machine?

    Oh, that's right, an empty economy, a national debt, and massive layoffs, reprising Germany, 1922.
    We did it backwards we had the Bushnyl Iraq war first which brought down the economy so poor ol O'bAMA ow is hold the proverbial economic bag.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

  8. #28
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 08:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Never worked? Germany 1930. So much for that argument. Furthermore, tax cuts are essentially stimulus.
    Germany 1930--that was the year the Nazi Part won 107 seats in the Reichstag and became a major player in German politics.

    Germany 1930--the year that Heinrich Bruning, the "hunger chancellor" became Chancellor, implementing an austerity program that raised taxes and lowered wages.

    Germany 1930--the beginning of the end of the Weimar Republic and the rise of Adolf Hitler.

    What part of this is a proof of effective economic stimulus?

  9. #29
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 08:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    When you understand that Bush built the uemployment mountain it's not a big surprise that Bush's gift just keeps on giving.
    Ah yes, the default knee-jerk response of liberals everywhere: "But....but....Bush....blame Bush....Bad Bush!"

    Bush didn't pass a perverse and non-stimulating "stimulus" bill that does little and adds $787 Billion to the 2009 deficit and the US national debt.

    Bush didn't lie to Congress that passing said bill would keep unemployment below 9%.

    Bush didn't lie to the American people to gather support for said bill.

    Dear Leader did all these things. His defense is the same as yours: "But....but....Bush....blame Bush....Bad Bush!"

    How.....typical.

  10. #30
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, we were promised a recovering economy quickly...and we should indeed have one in the second half of this year. That is not the same as new jobs. Unemployment is always a lagging indicator; it will continue to increase for months after the economy has actually bottomed out and started growing again.

    I don't think Obama ever stated that the stimulus was going to make the economy recover within five months of it becoming law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There's no way the President of the United States (or anyone else) can accurately predict the peak unemployment rate, with or without this policy.
    Actually...

    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •