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Thread: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    As you and I are likely the only two here who have actual university level business educations (the rest are clearly blowhards), do you think that the stimulus, with its paltry amount spent should be canceled and repackaged into something that can be spent within 60 days?
    I don't think there is any way to spend it that fast. However, there is a lot of waste in the stimulus bill that ideally could be cancelled and repackaged. My top priorities for economic stimulus are:

    1. Bailing out the banks and getting the toxic assets off their books
    2. Extending and expanding unemployment insurance and COBRA for the next couple years
    3. Giving money directly to the states, in proportion to their population (but not in proportion to their need)
    4. A complete upgrade of our decaying infrastructure, including highways, electric grids, rail systems, water supplies, and emergency preparedness.
    5. A one-year suspension or reduction in the corporate tax.


    While these things are the most important IMO, I don't think that any of them can distribute all the money back into the economy at large within 60 days.
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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    We needed an economic stimulus.
    There's two huge problems with this statement:

    1. We did not need and do not need economic stimulus. Economic stimulus has never worked, and there is zero evidence to give credence to the possibility of it working this time.

    2. We did not get economic stimulus, regardless of whether we needed it or not. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is not stimulative.

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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    More like cancel the amounts not spent, repackage them into something that can be spent within the next month.

    Anyone with a functioning brain should have expected this to occur when only a pathetic 6.5% of the stimulus has been spent so far. Stimulus as a concept is not bad. But as we've seen, it hasn't worked. But generally fiscal policy is almost virtually too slow to work well. Same thing happened under the Bush tax cuts. Too slow to make a difference.

    What I don't get is why is there a trillion dollar deficit when only $51 billion has been spent so far? Where is the rest of the money?
    "Stimulus" is an asinine concept invented by Libruls in their effort to fool the American people into agreeing with a vast power grab and Government expansion we have not seen since FDRs days.

    The notion that any Government can BORROW and PRINT money to "stimulate" an economic recovery requires a level of willful ignorance I cannot fathom.

    This effort to expand the role of Government into every facet of our lives is not over by any stretch; expect "stimulus II", Healthcare I and Cap & Trade I to be coming down the pike. I expect the deficit will exceed TWO TRILLION as a direct result of the nonsense we are seeing in Congress which is now infested with idiots on the Democrat side of the aisle who spend 8 years denouncing a Bush deficit of a mere $200 billion.

    Makes you kind of wish for those days again don't it?

    What is going to happen is a further meltdown of economic activity in the private sectors which translates to even lower tax revenues and if they do indeed pass their healthcare and cap and trade, expect a withering assault on the economy which will make the Carter years look like prosperity.

    States and local Governments are currently compounding the problems and exacerbating them by raising their tax rates and trying to find every possible way to make up for their continuing lost revenue; California and New York being the best examples.

    Obama was right about "change", but it isn't change we can BELIEVE in, it is change we will wish had never occurred.

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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    A brilliant rebuttal, good sir. Obviously a master of economics, you are.
    Anyone who defends the massive policy of stupidity cannot have the first idea of economics 101.

    I love the asinine notion that the Government can BORROW and PRINT trillions which will spark and economic recovery that if left alone, would have occurred anyway.

    Never before in history have so many been so fooled by such ignorance that now infests the White House and Congress.

    I used to give Obama credit for being very astute at fooling Americans into voting for him considering his complete lack of experience and background; but I am beginning to think that he and the other morons infesting the Congress actually believed their own asinine rhetoric; the belief that a VAST increase in Government bureaucracy by fear mongering the ignorant American public into agreeing to a policy of spending trillions of dollars they don't have without an honest debate about how they will pay for it.

    What we will see is a continuing spiral into a spending abyss as revenue continues to decline and spending continues unabated.

    The notion that we can SAVE enough money to cover the spending TRILLIONS on a National Healthcare program is laughable at best. I am surprised that they didn't use this asinine logic to support the vast increase they made in Medicare spending; whose funding will reach crisis levels by 2020.

    What about Social Security; which is another program heading for a funding crisis. But hey, we will solve it by spending several trillions on a Government managed Healthcare Insurance plan that is going to SAVE so much money as to fund itself.

    All this managed by the same morons who can't even balance a budget or deal with a looming banking crisis brought on by their own failed legislation in the name of making home ownership available to anyone who cannot afford a home.

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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    As you and I are likely the only two here who have actual university level business educations (the rest are clearly blowhards), do you think that the stimulus, with its paltry amount spent should be canceled and repackaged into something that can be spent within 60 days?
    ....yeah right; another of your intellectually lacking bloviations.

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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    There's two huge problems with this statement:

    1. We did not need and do not need economic stimulus. Economic stimulus has never worked, and there is zero evidence to give credence to the possibility of it working this time.

    2. We did not get economic stimulus, regardless of whether we needed it or not. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is not stimulative.
    I have to agree. Tax rebates, whether it is a lump sum or tiny increments, do not create create the shift in aggregate demand that would justify giving money out in the first place.... For the most part, permanent spending is based on future income expectations. If tax rebates are not (at least for the near term), a greater portion will be saved (undesirable)....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post

    We needed an economic stimulus.
    We did, in the form of TAX CUTS. How can you possibly say we needed to print money to fix the economy? Let me remind you that there wasn't, and still isn't, any money in the kitty.

    The only money available to stimulate the economy is in the private sector. You encourage them to free up that money by investing further in their businesses, not taking it away from them, which is only going to scare them further in the hole, let go of more employees, and bury the money they have left in the backyard.

    It's not like this theory has never been tested. Good lord.

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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    1. Bailing out the banks and getting the toxic assets off their books
    This does need to be done, but I quibble about whether it falls under the heading of "stimulus". RTC v2 would not alter aggregate demand in the economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    2. Extending and expanding unemployment insurance and COBRA for the next couple years
    Actually, we should move in the opposite direction. As harsh as it sounds, it will move people back into the work force. Expanding unemployment insurance is essentially paying people not to work, and that is never productive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    3. Giving money directly to the states, in proportion to their population (but not in proportion to their need)
    If FedZilla reduced federal spending and taxes, the states could more easily finance their budgets from within their own populations. Don't give money to states, return money to where it belongs, individuals' pockets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    4. A complete upgrade of our decaying infrastructure, including highways, electric grids, rail systems, water supplies, and emergency preparedness.
    You could write an entire spending bill on this one thing alone--and Congress should do exactly that. I do quibble about it being stimulus, because it's not elevating aggregate demand but merely servicing existing demand--but it's spending that needs to be done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    5. A one-year suspension or reduction in the corporate tax.
    Corporate income taxes should be eliminated in their entirety, and dividends taxed as ordinary income. If shareholders seek to defer taxes by keeping their share of the corporate profits at the corporate level, such accumulations of capital would be another store of savings to fuel financial activity and economic growth.

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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    We did, in the form of TAX CUTS. How can you possibly say we needed to print money to fix the economy? Let me remind you that there wasn't, and still isn't, any money in the kitty.
    Who said anything about printing money? And regardless of whether it comes in the form of tax cuts or more spending, it's going to increase the deficit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod
    The only money available to stimulate the economy is in the private sector. You encourage them to free up that money by investing further in their businesses, not taking it away from them, which is only going to scare them further in the hole, let go of more employees, and bury the money they have left in the backyard.
    The problem is there isn't much money to invest right now. That's why it's so important that the government bails out the banks and pumps more money into the economy.
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    Re: Obama: Unemployment likely to keep ticking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Who said anything about printing money? And regardless of whether it comes in the form of tax cuts or more spending, it's going to increase the deficit.
    The printing of money is being done by Helicopter Ben Bernanke. If you look at money supply growth in recent months, you'll see he's running his printing press full out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The problem is there isn't much money to invest right now. That's why it's so important that the government bails out the banks and pumps more money into the economy.
    The money is there. The problem is that the toxic debt issue has pushed the capital to the sidelines.

    In actuality, we need fewer "bailouts" and more aggressive action on removing the toxic securities from bank balance sheets. The bailouts thus far have done little to resolve the toxic debut issue, and have merely pruned superficial rotten assets; the systemic problems remain and continue to taint securities and bank balance sheets. We need to resolve the root of the problem, not just trim back rotten assets as they go bad.

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