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Thread: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

  1. #51
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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Best argument that you have presented. I will back down, as it is true there are no stats that show an increase in bar room deaths. If the laws are enforced on the drinking and carrying then it should be fine. I just think it seems a little wreckless.
    Time will tell, but history has already presented us with a notion of why it could be a good thing to have passed this legislation.

    Either way, I hope that the laws are strictly enforced as well.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well the minor thing, you always have to get parental consent to do any amount of surgery. Maybe they can make it with some way around in case someone wants to get an abortion and their parents don't want them to. That's the only thing I see as a bad possibility. But they are having a rather major medical practice performed, and for the vast majority of those things, that requires parental consent. I'm not too upset about that.

    Doctors/Pharmacists the right to deny plan B is also dependant upon situation. I'm not so sure about the doctor part, but for private business I think a pharmacist can choose or not choose what they sell in their own store. Now I say if some guy owns a pharmacy and wants to sell Plan B, any pharmacist who works there has to sell it because it's no longer their store and they have to go with the wishes of the property owner. But for the property owner themselves, I think they should be free to make the decision for themselves. I think it's their right to sell or not carry any legal product they wish.

    Concealed carry needs to be expanded and made easier. Quite honestly, I view open carry and concealed carry as the base situation. I don't see how the State can forbid either one as the individual has the right to to keep and bear arms. I would have long ago abolished most of the laws against open and conceal carry and the norm would be that if the property owner allows it on their property, even if that property is a bar, then you are allowed to carry your gun onto that property. Now this law can't force people to allow guns on their property. If a property owner, such as a bar owner, does not want to allow guns on their property, I think it is their right to deny that. You have to post that guns are not allowed on your property (this doesn't stop the property owner themselves from having guns mind you, just that other people can't bring their guns onto the owner's property), but the choice is up to the property owner.
    In the case of surgical intervention on minors, I have to agree. In the case of RU-486, or other non-surgical methods I don't.

    Owners of these clinics / pharmacies should be able to dictate whether or not they will dispense medications that are in accordance with their beliefs... Government coersion / force of them either way is ridiculous and shouldn't be tolerated.

    And you and I think both the same way about ccw / gun laws.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

  3. #53
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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Screw the democrats interfering with my medical well being, having doctors tell me what procedures I'm allowed to have and when, and having the government dictate how, when, and where I'm having my procedures being done! How dare those democratic assholes, don't they know only conservatives get to tell us that!

    Seriously, if any conservative tries to go into a UHC thread and bitch about the slippery slope precent it presents I'm going to point to this thread, laugh in their face, and ignore them like the hypocrites they are. We can ignore the slippery slope in this case because hey, its abortion, and we hate abortion, so screw our other principles, grrrr....but if the DEM'S bring it up, WOOO BOOY, are we going to be whiny and bitchy then!
    It is a completely different issue when a life (i.e. the fetus) is on the line. You admitted such yourself:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Abortion is a bad example actually. Abortion is only a good example IF you accept the premise that the traditional liberal view of it is the correct view, IE fetus does not equal human.

    However, traditionally, the conservative view point is that the fetus IS a human and therefore has rights. One of the few jobs of the government that is distinctly deliniated to it through the constitution is protection of its citizens. From this you have the general conservative belief that, barring the issue of the womans life being at risk (which is thus perhaps viewed as self defense), the womans right to not want to be pregnant does not supercede the other "persons" right to be alive. As such, this is not an issue of government regulating morality or ones life but is acting as law enforcement protecting a citizens right to life.

  4. #54
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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Imposing beliefs?

    Most people believe that both issues handled by the Governor in this instance: coincides with what they want their dully elected legislators to do.

    To not support the majority's opinion on these two issues, would in effect, be imposing the minority's belief on them.

    Last edited by Metternich; 07-14-09 at 12:44 PM.

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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Protecting my property is protecting my right to life liberty and happiness.

    Protecting people's rights, well look above.. You can't not have equal rights with the above.

    Restricting slander, same look above.

    Outlawing other forms of murder? Such as? Murder in general affects my rights to life liberty and happiness as well.

    What's your point other than you have none? And yes, I know I used a double negative in there.
    Again, you fail to grasp the brutally obvious.


    All of the examples you cite are representative of laws which exist as a result of someone's moral code.


    The very concept that you have rights at all is an expression of a benign moral code. In most places and times in Human history, you'd have had had no real rights at all, because the prevailing moral code, as expressed in the extant law would have granted you none.


    That current law states that I may not simply strike down anyone I please and take all that they possess is a codification of the widespread belief, founded in Religion, and not logic I might add, that there is a proper set of moral constraints placed upon Society.


    Let me assure you that I find such laws to be a constraint upon my freedom.


    So once again, to explain the perfectly obvious, one cannot uphold the rule of law and at the same time reject the imposition of morality. They are very much the same thing.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

  6. #56
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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Again, you fail to grasp the brutally obvious.


    All of the examples you cite are representative of laws which exist as a result of someone's moral code.


    The very concept that you have rights at all is an expression of a benign moral code. In most places and times in Human history, you'd have had had no real rights at all, because the prevailing moral code, as expressed in the extant law would have granted you none.


    That current law states that I may not simply strike down anyone I please and take all that they possess is a codification of the widespread belief, founded in Religion, and not logic I might add, that there is a proper set of moral constraints placed upon Society.


    Let me assure you that I find such laws to be a constraint upon my freedom.


    So once again, to explain the perfectly obvious, one cannot uphold the rule of law and at the same time reject the imposition of morality. They are very much the same thing.
    I guess I fail to understand how laws that are placed to protect your constitutional rights are based upon morality.


    Other than the fact of it's a simple right / wrong question... should people be able to murder? No. Should people be able to rob what's rightfully earned from others? No. Should people be able to tell me how I should live my life? Unless I'm a danger to society, Nope. (All of those acts, directly infringe upon my rights as an American Citizen)

    So I guess I don't understand your broad position of all laws are based on morality.
    Last edited by stevenb; 07-14-09 at 12:55 PM.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Whats wrong with a 24-hour waiting period for an abortion?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 07-14-09 at 12:59 PM.

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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Whats wring with a 24-hour waiting period for an abortion?
    You agree with Universal Health Care?
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Whats wring with a 24-hour waiting period for an abortion?
    I think it is a fair compromise between the two sides. Give the person a chance to be sure it is what they want.

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    Re: Governor signs bills on guns, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    You agree with Universal Health Care?
    Irrelevant to my question, which you did not answer.

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