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Thread: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

  1. #41
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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't think it's necessarily incompetence...I can understand the point about it being a lot more difficult to assassinate specific targets than it seems in the movies. There's probably a lot of truth to that.

    I do think that #1 is a very good question. I don't see why something like this would need to be kept secret from Congress.
    I would think that Congress would have actually been behind this program. It's too bad it never got operational.

    My question now is did we actually ever invest real money in building up that capability for future use? I mean before it was axed.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Wrong. Nothing would be simple or to the point. The CIA has a very long history of doing very bad things in the name of the U.S. It would end up making the 60's through the 80's look like an episode of "Get Smart." There must be oversight.
    No I disagree they should only report to the President this would save allot of time and effort on their part.

    As for going back to the 60s thru 80s in referance to the CIA god I would hope so things would be alot better for it.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    The irony here is seeing folks be so understanding of the Bush administration for not being able to pull this off. Of course when Clinton tried the exact same thing and the Pentagon told him they just couldn't do it, when he personally requested "black ops" teams to go in covertly and snatch or kill enemies and was told "we just don't have the kind of resources to do that"....well Clinton was incompetent, Clinton did nothing, in fact I was remember being called a liar...as was Richard Clarke...because "the Pentagon and CIA just don't say no to the President."

    So the big secret is we had a "plan to covertly kill Al Qaeda?" I doubt this is the only thing the CIA hid from Congress, but if I'm wrong and this is it...then who cares? I'm glad they had a plan. I'm disappointed they couldn't make it work. But I understand the challenges.
    Not exaclty true Mr. Clinton ask the US Army if they could put together a Black Ops team and he was told that under the (rules at the time) the US Army was forbidden to operated these types of Black Opps teams. Would leave the folks in these teams open to International Warcrime Charges and would go against the MCOJ.

    As for the CIA they were never actually ask by Mr. Clinton and when they did ask Mr. Clinton permission to take out Bin Laden Mr Clinton told them not once but three times no because he was worried about so-called clatural damage or deaths. In retrospect Mr. Clinton admit that he was wrong on that part and should have allowed the CIA to take the Drone Hits.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    1 - Why could Congress not be told of this?

    What with the leaks coming out of Congress, to cover their political screw ups, it's not hard to wonder why they didn't tell them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I would think that Congress would have actually been behind this program. It's too bad it never got operational.

    My question now is did we actually ever invest real money in building up that capability for future use? I mean before it was axed.
    Good question maybe it's something that needs to be really look into. I for one would like to see some of the rule that hold back both the US Military and CIA be removed or at least modified for what the world is like now. Not what it was in the 60s and 70s.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    Good question maybe it's something that needs to be really look into. I for one would like to see some of the rule that hold back both the US Military and CIA be removed or at least modified for what the world is like now. Not what it was in the 60s and 70s.
    You mean back when the CIA was a loose cannon, funneling money to Saddam Hussein and Osama binLaden? You liked all the duplicity which grew into a harvest of terrorism and hatred?

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    You mean back when the CIA was a loose cannon, funneling money to Saddam Hussein and Osama binLaden? You liked all the duplicity which grew into a harvest of terrorism and hatred?
    First you need to get your fact straight WRW, the CIA never provide anything to either Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden.

    It is a well know fact that while the CIA try to provide both money and training to Bin Laden group he forbid any contact with the United States.

    As for Hussein care to provide actually proof that the CIA funneled money and stuff to him. You do understand that their has been three different reports on this subject and everyone of them shows that the CIA never was involved with Hussein as a matter of fact Hussein order then President Reagn to close CIA Headquater in Bagdad in 1987 this was the turnin gpoint in the relationship with Hussein and the United States Govn.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    First you need to get your fact straight WRW, the CIA never provide anything to either Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden.

    It is a well know fact that while the CIA try to provide both money and training to Bin Laden group he forbid any contact with the United States.

    As for Hussein care to provide actually proof that the CIA funneled money and stuff to him. You do understand that their has been three different reports on this subject and everyone of them shows that the CIA never was involved with Hussein as a matter of fact Hussein order then President Reagn to close CIA Headquater in Bagdad in 1987 this was the turnin gpoint in the relationship with Hussein and the United States Govn.
    Care to show proof the Bin Laden did not recieve any CIA money in the Afghan campaign? Everything I have read on the subject, including "Ghost Wars," asserts that Bin Laden indeed recieved training and money from the CIA.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Care to show proof the Bin Laden did not recieve any CIA money in the Afghan campaign? Everything I have read on the subject, including "Ghost Wars," asserts that Bin Laden indeed recieved training and money from the CIA.
    Yep here you go from Wikki,

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden]Allegations of CIA assistance to Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    The U.S. government officials and a number of other parties maintain that the U.S. supported only the indigenous Afghan mujahideen. They deny that the CIA or other American officials had contact with the Afghan Arabs (foreign mujahideen) or Bin Laden, let alone armed, trained, coached or indoctrinated them. Scholars and reporters have called the idea "nonsense",[11] "sheer fantasy", [12] and "simply a folk myth."[13] They argue that

    * with a quarter of a million local Afghans willing to fight there was no need to recruit foreigners unfamiliar with the local language, customs or lay of the land
    * that with several hundred million dollars a year in funding from non-American, Muslim sources, Arab Afghans themselves would have no need for American funds
    * that Americans could not train mujahideen because Pakistani officials would not allow more than a handful of them to operate in Pakistan and none in Afghanistan[14];
    * that the Afghan Arabs were militant Islamists, reflexively hostile to Westerners, and prone to threaten or attack Westerners even though they knew the Westerners were helping the mujahideen.

    Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri says much the same thing in his book Knights Under the Prophet's Banner.[15] Bin Laden himself has said "the collapse of the Soviet Union ... goes to God and the mujahideen in Afghanistan ... the US had no mentionable role," but "collapse made the US more haughty and arrogant." [16]

    According to CNN journalist Peter Bergen, known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997,

    The story about bin Laden and the CIA that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden is simply a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. In fact, there are very few things that bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the U.S. government agree on. They all agree that they didn't have a relationship in the 1980s. And they wouldn't have needed to. Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently. The real story here is the CIA did not understand who Osama was until 1996, when they set up a unit to really start tracking him.[13]

    Bergen quotes Pakistani Brigadier Mohammad Yousaf, who ran the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Afghan operation between 1983 and 1987:

    It was always galling to the Americans, and I can understand their point of view, that although they paid the piper they could not call the tune. The CIA supported the mujahideen by spending the taxpayers' money, billions of dollars of it over the years, on buying arms, ammunition, and equipment. It was their secret arms procurement branch that was kept busy. It was, however, a cardinal rule of Pakistan's policy that no Americans ever become involved with the distribution of funds or arms once they arrived in the country. No Americans ever trained or had direct contact with the mujahideen, and no American official ever went inside Afghanistan.[17]

    Marc Sageman argues that no American money went to the foreign volunteers.

    No U.S. official ever came in contact with the foreign volunteers. They simply traveled in different circles and never crossed U.S. radar screens. They had their own sources of money and their own contacts with the Pakistanis, official Saudis, and other Muslim supporters, and they made their own deals with the various Afghan resistance leaders."[18]

    Vincent Cannistraro, who led the Reagan administration's Afghan Working Group from 1985 to 1987, puts it,

    The CIA was very reluctant to be involved at all. They thought it would end up with them being blamed, like in Guatemala." So the Agency tried to avoid direct involvement in the war, ... the skittish CIA, Cannistraro estimates, had less than ten operatives acting as America's eyes and ears in the region. Milton Bearden, the Agency's chief field operative in the war effort, has insisted that "[T]he CIA had nothing to do with" bin Laden. Cannistraro says that when he coordinated Afghan policy from Washington, he never once heard bin Laden's name.[19]

    Other reasons advanced for a lack of a CIA-Afghan Arab connection of "pivotal importance," (or even any connection at all), was that the Afghan Arabs themselves were not important in the war but were a "curious sideshow to the real fighting."[20]

    One estimate of the number of combatants in the war is that 250,000 Afghans fought 125,000 Soviet troops, but only 2000 Arab Afghans fought "at any one time".[21]

    Marc Sageman, a Foreign Service Officer who was based in Islamabad from 1987-1989, and worked closely with Afghanistan's Mujahideen, says:[22]

    Contemporaneous accounts of the war do not even mention [the Afghan Arabs]. Many were not serious about the war. ... Very few were involved in actual fighting. For most of the war, they were scattered among the Afghan groups associated with the four Afghan fundamentalist parties.

    According to Milton Bearden the CIA did not recruit Arabs because there were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight. The Arab Afghan were not only superfluous but "disruptive," angering local Afghan with their more-Muslim-than-thou attitude, according to Peter Jouvenal.[23] Veteran Afghan cameraman Peter Jouvenal quotes an Afghan mujahideen as saying "whenever we had a problem with one of them [foreign mujahideen], we just shot them. They thought they were kings."

    Many who traveled in Afghanistan Olivier Roy,[24] Peter Jouvenal.[25] reported of the Arab Afghans' visceral hostility to Westerners in Afghanistan to aid Afghans or report on their plight. BBC reporter John Simpson tells the story of running into Osama bin Laden in 1989, and with neither knowing who the other was, bin Laden attempting to bribe Simpson's Afghan driver $500 a large sum in a poor country to kill the infidel Simpson. When the driver declined, Bin Laden retired to his "camp bed" and wept "in frustration." [26]

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    There is a problem with this commentary. First you are assuming that the officials are telling the truth. Second, if Pakistan controlled all of the weapons and money flowing into Afghanistan, then how can we know what went to whom?

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