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Thread: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    What I am saying is what they have been using since we got into Iraq. You need as many men as possible, and you need as many supplies as possible. What Apdst has essentially been doing is treating this like a conventional war, where you can actually take away certain combat essentials. Here, we can't.
    That is a lie. He has not been treating this like a conventional war.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Yeah, the boundaries are the following: our bases, friendly; everywhere else, hostile.
    Incorrect. The "boundaries" are defined by physical presence and the projection of force, both of which extend well beyond the walls of our bases.

    And that gets the enemy more support when our troops accidently kill/injure some terrorist without a gun.
    Sometimes. Sometimes not. Do not make blanket statements.

    Then why haven't we won? Oh yeah, because what Apdst has been saying about denying them combat elements or whatever isn't really feasible.
    We haven't won because counter-insurgency campaigns are long.

    Do you have experience in say...getting an abortion? You undoubtedly have an opinion on that right?
    Having an opinion on abortion is not analogous to speaking authoritatively on the tactical, strategic, and operational aspects of military campaigns.

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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    That is a lie. He has not been treating this like a conventional war.
    Then why hasn't he said anything concerning a counter-insurgency type conflict??? He's making the most generic statements, which are like saying, "take the water out," while a boat is sinking. It's understood to be what's necessary, but it doesn't do a single thing to explain how.
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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Incorrect. The "boundaries" are defined by physical presence and the projection of force, both of which extend well beyond the walls of our bases.
    The boundaries are nothing more then little Lesotho like places in the middle of South Africa. Our troops are attacked everywhere, including the bases, and most definetely places where power has been projected. Those areas are subjected to more attack because of our simple presence in the regions. The physical presence fades between patrols, and patrols are attack, are they not?

    Sometimes. Sometimes not. Do not make blanket statements.
    Ambiguity is Apdst's trump card, why can't it be mine?

    We haven't won because counter-insurgency campaigns are long.
    And we won't win by trying to stop the inflow of supplies, or by killing all of the hostiles either. And saying thats what's necessary is rather vague, and useless.

    Having an opinion on abortion is not analogous to speaking authoritatively on the tactical, strategic, and operational aspects of military campaigns.
    As a matter of fact, the analogy works perfectly. If you have never done action A (abortion) you can still comment, and advise on action A, right? Well, same goes for action B (military conflict).

    Many military figures have opinions on hwo to win certain types of conflicts. Some (for Afghanistan) might suggest sweeping attacks, followed by intermittent patrols or something. Others might suggest simply establishing a presence and then patrolling around the bases. Others might suggest a combination of the two. It all matters on opinion, and for the record, Apdst has about as much military experience as me, seeing as he doesn't have an active service badge.
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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    The problem is you can't deny an enemy the supplies and guns on this battlefield without going to unprecedented security, which we don't have the manpower for. And we can't get all of the enemy, there are thousands of them, and then hundreds of thousands of people who look just like them, but are civilians.



    First, I've read everything you've said. And what you are saying is a denial of necessary materials for fighting. But we can't rid the enemy of those fighting materials. As I've said before, it'd be implausibly hard, and would probably take more men then in Iraq right now.

    The tactics are used to carry out the strategy, right? But they cannot in this instance, without going to unprecedented security.



    We killed a lot, and they thought, "Hey, there are only a few in Afghanistan, let's kill all of them, then come back to Iraq." All we can do is basically keep our troops there, and wait for them to kill all of the enemy, yes. That's allw e can really do here.

    What you've done is simply say the same thing over and over in different words, while I rebuted what you said.

    So, please, tell us what tactical, or strategic doctrine, or theory your basing your opion on.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, please, tell us what tactical, or strategic doctrine, or theory your basing your opion on.
    Basing what part of it? Or all of it?
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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Basing what part of it? Or all of it?
    You've said that everything I've stated, so far, is impossible. You zero wiggle room for my conclusions to be correct. Therefore, you must have some doctrine, theory, or historical exmaple to support your conclusions. Care to share them with us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You've said that everything I've stated, so far, is impossible. You zero wiggle room for my conclusions to be correct. Therefore, you must have some doctrine, theory, or historical exmaple to support your conclusions. Care to share them with us?
    What I'm saying about yours is that you are stereo-typing all warfare, and while the basic elements stay the same, the situation differs greatly. I'll get back to you on the doctrine thing, I need to go, and won't have time until tomorrow now.
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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    What I'm saying about yours is that you are stereo-typing all warfare, and while the basic elements stay the same, the situation differs greatly. I'll get back to you on the doctrine thing, I need to go, and won't have time until tomorrow now.

    "...the basic elements stay the same", is all I've been saying.

    I look forward to your docs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    "...the basic elements stay the same", is all I've been saying.

    I look forward to your docs.
    That doesn't help the smallest bit. At least I'm saying what we could possible do. And I quite frankly don't have the patience to go look for an actual doctrine related to what I'm saying. It's understood that you need to establish a presence, and then increase the presence when performing counter-insurgnecy, correct?
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