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Thread: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Just because there are no "front lines" doesn't mean there aren't well-defined boundaries.

    That's not what he's saying. Our military has altered and refined its SOPs since day one of Afghanistan/Iraq. We have the most effective counter-insurgency forces on the planet, and they will only continue to get better.

    Why would we ask you anything? You have no experience whatsoever.
    Yeah, the boundaries are the following: our bases, friendly; everywhere else, hostile. And that gets the enemy more support when our troops accidently kill/injure some terrorist without a gun.

    Then why haven't we won? Oh yeah, because what Apdst has been saying about denying them combat elements or whatever isn't really feasible.

    Do you have experience in say...getting an abortion? You undoubtedly have an opinion on that right?
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    Re: Counter-Insurgency

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It doesn't matter that this is an unconventional fight. As I've already pointed out, the same principles apply to the battlefield. Yes, it's still a, "battlefield", although it's not configured in the Napolianic sense of the term.
    The problem is you can't deny an enemy the supplies and guns on this battlefield without going to unprecedented security, which we don't have the manpower for. And we can't get all of the enemy, there are thousands of them, and then hundreds of thousands of people who look just like them, but are civilians.

    Either you haven't read what I've written, or it went right over your head. 1) At no point did I say we should use the same tactics against an unconventional force as we would a conventional, i.e. Warsaw Pact, force. 2) What I have said, is that the combat tactics change, but the principles of combat do not. If you're not familiar with them, they are: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. Neither does that fact that logistics is the backbone of any force. It doesn't matter how tough, cool, smart, dedicated, fanatical, or willing to die a soldier is, he has to eat, he has to have ammo. Even the most dedicated soldier, who will readily give his life on the battlefield, isn't ready to starve to death. Nor is he ready to fight the enemy with no ammo. That's a fact, I don;t care what PC, Libbo history book you were educated with.
    First, I've read everything you've said. And what you are saying is a denial of necessary materials for fighting. But we can't rid the enemy of those fighting materials. As I've said before, it'd be implausibly hard, and would probably take more men then in Iraq right now.

    The tactics are used to carry out the strategy, right? But they cannot in this instance, without going to unprecedented security.

    Yes, we dissuaded them from fighting us there, on their terms. We did it by killing the hell out of their rank and file. They couldn't sustain their combat operations against us, because we took away their combat power. We took away their combat power to the point they could no longer engage our forces. American soldiers are the all-time experts on counter-insurgency warfare. No other military in the history of the world has the counter-insurgency experience that the United States military has.

    I haven't misread, nor ignored anything you've posted. All I've done is recognized the error in your thought process.
    We killed a lot, and they thought, "Hey, there are only a few in Afghanistan, let's kill all of them, then come back to Iraq." All we can do is basically keep our troops there, and wait for them to kill all of the enemy, yes. That's allw e can really do here.

    What you've done is simply say the same thing over and over in different words, while I rebuted what you said.
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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    1 - Why could Congress not be told of this?
    Probably because the Democrats leak classified intel like a sieve for political gain.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe1991 View Post
    Sorry, but we do not have dictators in this country.

    In matters of covert ops, the Director of Central Intelligence by law must notify the intelligence oversight committees of the Congress.

    If the CIA was ordered not to tell congress as has been charged, this is about as serious as it gets.
    Not when the LOTUS has already granted the POTUS an AUMF to use all necessary means to defeat the targets of the assassination. The POTUS not the head of the intelligence oversight committee is the CinC, I suggest your brush up on your Constitution.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 07-19-09 at 12:07 AM.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    You are six weeks behind on your Republican Talking Points Daily Memo. Pelosi was right, she was lied to. In fact, CIA director Panetta was also lied to.
    lol then release the transcript of Panetta's testimony. Sorry sport it's you who is a bit late on your talking points. The CIA spokesmen is stating that the Dems are lying through their teeth as does Panetta and as does the Republican spokesmen for the Intelligence Committee.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    You mean back when the CIA was a loose cannon, funneling money to Saddam Hussein and Osama binLaden? You liked all the duplicity which grew into a harvest of terrorism and hatred?
    Proof for either of those assertions? Family Jewels release sport.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Care to show proof the Bin Laden did not recieve any CIA money in the Afghan campaign?
    The burden of proof is on you sir.

    Everything I have read on the subject, including "Ghost Wars," asserts that Bin Laden indeed recieved training and money from the CIA.
    Everything that I have read completely contradicts this assertion.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    There is a problem with this commentary. First you are assuming that the officials are telling the truth. Second, if Pakistan controlled all of the weapons and money flowing into Afghanistan, then how can we know what went to whom?
    The foreign Jihadists had their own sources of funding.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    So here it 6 days after the original post and the arguing continues unabated. I would just remind everyone of the following.

    The plans remained vague and were never carried out, the officials said, and Leon E. Panetta, the C.I.A. director, canceled the program last month.
    I think I got this right.

    t is not clear why Mr. Panetta decided to cancel the program. The C.I.A. never proposed a specific operation to the White House for approval, said the officials, who would only speak anonymously because the program had been classified.

    Because the program never carried out any missions and because Congress had already signed off on the agency’s broad authorities after the Sept. 11 attacks, the officials and some Republican legislators said that the C.I.A. was not required to brief lawmakers on specifics about the program.
    This is like the program that never was. And if they had killed some bad guys so what. Would it be any different than using a Predator to take someone or a group of someones out? I would say yes because it's more precise with little or no collateral damage.
    Forgive me if I make a point or two that someone else has made. I didn't have time to go back and read every post since my first one 6 days ago, but I had to weigh back in.

    The use of snipers and if you prefer hit teams to take out key targets has been around since the beginning of war which means it's almost as long as man himself. The main object is in the end to save lives on a larger scale by eliminating a specific target. Imagine how nice it might have been if Hitler or Tojo had been taken out in 1939. And don't forget that even though it was a time of War a special mission was put together that took out Admiral Yamamoto in April 1943 when his plane was shot down. So there is a long tradition of as I call it doing the right thing.
    Not to be too sappy but to paraphrase a line from a Movie. "The good of the many out weighs the lives of a few bad guys."

    Since the topic never happened and this discussion has become so heated, I was wondering what it would be like as a child to have ones father say, I'm going to punish you because you thought about doing a bad thing. I know you didn't really do it but you could have if you had been able to figure out how to Im going to have to do this. So go to your room and I'll be in there in a minute to spank you.
    Let's wait till something that's not for the good of the many to take place before we become part of the "Blame America First Bunch", as it seems some may have already done.
    I personally salute everyone who puts it on the line so I can be here to do this, whether they are in uniform or a member of some special operations unit working behind enemy lines as hard as those lines can be to define. All of them put their lives on the line and follow orders to keep us safe and free.
    America and her people first last and always, and if some bad guys have to die. Very simply 'THEM'S THE BREAKS', tough Shiite.
    Last edited by Councilman; 07-19-09 at 12:55 AM.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    When the CIA has secret plans to take out members of congress is when I get worried. It seems to me they were mandated to plan on wacking some AQ. Were the plans completed? Were they implemented? Eight years is a long time to do nothing. If I get briefed every day for eight years on something that never changes it goes to junkmail pretty quick. Maybe they were informed and it went to junkmail because it was equivalent to internet banality.
    Thank you

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