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Thread: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

  1. #161
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    Re: Will the Liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Well, OK, but.... I am speaking of the broader issue of the war against terrorists. Iraq and Afghanistan are part of that, but not really the part I am discussing.

    I thought the context was clear from the post I responded to...
    I guess I was failing to make the connect with out the "left" got put into that conversation. My thoughts were if we are going to bring "left and right" into it, well we were obligated to look at recent history.

    But I get your point and can't say I disagree.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Will the Liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Which, of course, are illegal and immoral.

    The US should never use covert operations, as it dirties us and takes us off the moral high ground. When we do so, we sink to the level of our enemies.

    covert operations need to be competent or the entire nation looks foolish. The recent Republican administration was like a neighborhood loudmouth, telling everyone how tough they were but unable to perform when the time came. Whatever happened to "getting Osama binLaden dead or alive"?

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    Re: Will the Liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    covert operations need to be competent or the entire nation looks foolish. The recent Republican administration...
    ^ ^ ^ ^
    More partisan hackery.

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    An assissination program is a very surgical strategy.
    It really depends. Ideally you are only targeting one person, but the target may sorround himself with other people that could jeporadize the operation. This was the case with Bin Laden in the 90s. We had two clear chances to take him out and beaucracy decided against it both times because of collateral damage.
    And, as far as we know, this operation was conducted in such a manner. As far as I know it wasn't executed using airstrikes to attack area targets, but rather using precise and accurate long range fire to engage and defeat a point target.
    Actually, we know that it was executed using unmanned aerial vehicles but we don't know if they used and precise long range fire. They likely didn't.

    As has been seen in Iraq, sooner, or later the local indiginous personel will get tired of getting blown up, just because some terrorist decided to use their house for cover. You're mistaken when you claim that collateral damage is self defeating. It's only self defeating when you kill one, or two non-coms. It's actually an effective strategy when you kill thousands. That was proven during WW2 with the British night bombing.
    Wrong. It is fundamental to counter-insurgency to only use soft tactics whenever possible. The 82nd airbourne--in 2004 when stationed in Anbar province-- used an electronic system to designate where mortar strikes were being launched against them, and would respond with a volley of artillerly fire. What did insurgents do in response? They would setup in a random persons home, fire a couple of mortars, and leave. Then the 82nd airbourne would completely decimate the random persons home. To that person, who is the perpetrator here? Who destroyed this persons home?

    The US military re-adopted its counter-insurgency tactics--which they had learned in Vietnam--and made defending the Iraqi people its #1 priority(instead of earlier priority which was to transition areas to the Iraqi government). Sunni tribes turned against Al Qaida because they were clearly the antagonist... They disregarded civilian casualities and used terror tactics to stay influential. (When you protect the people, they don't turn to the insurgents for security. It's that simple.)
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
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    Re: Will the Liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ^ ^ ^ ^
    More partisan hackery.
    It happens to be true. The recent administration was no good at covert operations or any other kind. Why is Osama still at large? Why didn't Bush pay attention to reports such as "Osama determined to strike within the US"? Why didn't the incoming Bush administration act on the information and anti-terrorist planning handed to it by the Clinton administration?

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    Re: C.I.A. Had Plan to Assassinate Qaeda Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Here's a place to start:

    International Law and War Crimes

    Do a web search
    I already know what International Laws of War say. I told you what they say. it's time for you to go do the research and educate yourself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Which, of course, are illegal and immoral.

    The US should never use covert operations, as it dirties us and takes us off the moral high ground. When we do so, we sink to the level of our enemies.

    It's about winning and losing. There are no points for second place and no awards for good sportsmanship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    It really depends. Ideally you are only targeting one person, but the target may sorround himself with other people that could jeporadize the operation. This was the case with Bin Laden in the 90s. We had two clear chances to take him out and beaucracy decided against it both times because of collateral damage.
    And, all three cases the order to strike should have been given. Just think of the hundreds of thousands of lives it would have saved. As long as we allow the enemy to use civilians as human shields, they will do it.

    Actually, we know that it was executed using unmanned aerial vehicles but we don't know if they used and precise long range fire. They likely didn't.
    The particulars of this operation are classified, so no, we don't know how the engagements were executed, or that there even were any.



    Wrong. It is fundamental to counter-insurgency to only use soft tactics whenever possible. The 82nd airbourne--in 2004 when stationed in Anbar province-- used an electronic system to designate where mortar strikes were being launched against them, and would respond with a volley of artillerly fire. What did insurgents do in response? They would setup in a random persons home, fire a couple of mortars, and leave. Then the 82nd airbourne would completely decimate the random persons home. To that person, who is the perpetrator here? Who destroyed this persons home?
    And, after a while the civilians of the area figured out that the reason their homes were getting blown up was because there was an indirect fire weapon hiding in the living room. When the houses stopped being used as a base of fire, the houses weren't getting blown up anymore. It was called, "The Anbar Awakening".

    The US military re-adopted its counter-insurgency tactics--which they had learned in Vietnam--and made defending the Iraqi people its #1 priority(instead of earlier priority which was to transition areas to the Iraqi government). Sunni tribes turned against Al Qaida because they were clearly the antagonist... They disregarded civilian casualities and used terror tactics to stay influential. (When you protect the people, they don't turn to the insurgents for security. It's that simple.)

    However, you can't spare civilians to the point that your force can't effectively fight the enemy. Anytime you allow the enemy sactuary, they're going to take advantage of it. When you show the enemy, as well as the civilian populace that you're going to engage the enemy whenever and where ever, the enemy will stop using civilians as human shields and the civilians will stop allowing themselves to be used as human shields.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #167
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    Re: Will the Liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    It happens to be true. The recent administration was no good at covert operations or any other kind. Why is Osama still at large?
    Bin Laden's dead.

    Why didn't Bush pay attention to reports such as "Osama determined to strike within the US"? Why didn't the incoming Bush administration act on the information and anti-terrorist planning handed to it by the Clinton administration?
    Because there was no, "where, when and how", attached to that anti-terrorist plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Will the Liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Bin Laden's dead.
    That's your opinion, and sad to say, isn't even confirmed by the U.S. government.

    Let's see, you claiming he is dead is about as credible as 9/11 truthers claiming Bush was behind 9/11.

    When you have actual evidence, like the U.S. government claiming the same, maybe then I will believe you. Until then, have fun in fantasy-ville.

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    Re: Will the Liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Bin Laden's dead.
    Please, give a source to that. I myself would like to know where you got that from...
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
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    Re: Will the Liar?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    That's your opinion, and sad to say, isn't even confirmed by the U.S. government.

    Let's see, you claiming he is dead is about as credible as 9/11 truthers claiming Bush was behind 9/11.

    When you have actual evidence, like the U.S. government claiming the same, maybe then I will believe you. Until then, have fun in fantasy-ville.
    It's been reported by two different sources in the region and we haven't seen UBL in a long time, while his #2 guy produces a video tape every month.

    I don't have any evidence that he's dead, but there isn't enough evidence that he's alive to suggest that he is alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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