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Thread: Obama Threatens to Veto His Own Defense Bill Over F-22 Funding

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama Threatens to Veto His Own Defense Bill Over F-22 Funding

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Although the f-22 is theoretically gives the Airforce a big technological advantage, its absurd cost is a major drawback. Honestly, at this juncture there are no good options. The f-22 has absurd unit costs, but it exists works and we have already paid for development costs. The f-35 has more reasonable costs, but isn't a deployable plaform, and could possibly end up nearly as expensive and less capable. Even choosing nothing wont help as the we need to replace worn-out airframes regardless of the procurement choice. Fact is, this whole system was screwed up years ago, and there is little that can fix it now. What really needs to happen is that we need to start to do cost-benefit analysis of military hardware. Currently, we pick whatever brings the most jobs to the senators home state and the most profits to the defense contractor.
    I disagree with you rathi- The F-22 isn't as high as everyone claims hell their was an brief about this not to many days ag that the Ag sent out. The 350 Million Cost is a Balloon cost that all Aircraft get do you know how much a Block 55 F-16 is or a F-18F Block 35 it's about the same as a F-22 minus the avionics the cost of the F-22 is it's Avionics plain and simple.

    As for the F-35 it's junk plain and simple it should have never left the drawing board the thing is going to cost us far more then it is worth. Hell they can't even get the navy Reqs correct. The two navy Prototyped that were going to be used for Carrier Quals can't even pass the most basic hard landing drops. I got to watch one break its Main Left Gear last Wend at NAS Pax River.

    As for you last comment not true the problem is this we have slashed are military Budget so much that we no wonly have a few Contractors in very few States.

    question with out googling cam you name all the US Military Aircraft Compnay that are currently building aircraft and then name all the companys from 40 Years ago.

  2. #42
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    Re: Obama Threatens to Veto His Own Defense Bill Over F-22 Funding

    I disagree with you rathi- The F-22 isn't as high as everyone claims hell their was an brief about this not to many days ag that the Ag sent out. The 350 Million Cost is a Balloon cost that all Aircraft get do you know how much a Block 55 F-16 is or a F-18F Block 35 it's about the same as a F-22 minus the avionics the cost of the F-22 is it's Avionics plain and simple.

    True, but you are assuming that the f-22 is the only plane with a inflated price tag. Avionics are the most expensive because they are the easier to get away with absurd price gouging. Notice how computers have been getting cheaper and more powerful over the years, but avionics get more expensive. The f-22 is simply a more stark example of an already existing problem.

    As for the F-35 it's junk plain and simple it should have never left the drawing board the thing is going to cost us far more then it is worth. Hell they can't even get the navy Reqs correct. The two navy Prototyped that were going to be used for Carrier Quals can't even pass the most basic hard landing drops. I got to watch one break its Main Left Gear last Wend at NAS Pax River.
    I agree that so far the f-35 is not a great aircraft, but we have limited options. Even if we buy the f-22, its a pure fighter and isn't suited for ground attack. We have to replace our f-16s and f-18s with something. The best bet might be foreign planes like eurofighters or su-35s, but that is impossible for political reasons.

    As for you last comment not true the problem is this we have slashed are military Budget so much that we no wonly have a few Contractors in very few States.

    question with out googling cam you name all the US Military Aircraft Compnay that are currently building aircraft and then name all the companys from 40 Years ago.
    Military contractors merge like crazy. Boeing bought Mcdonald Douglas, Northrop merged with Grumman, Lockheed &Martin and the entire concept of General Dynamics.Furthermore, the standardization of designs has simply eliminated the need for many different times of aircraft. Finally, corruption has made competition so difficult that anyone who didn't have political contacts went out of business.

  3. #43
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    Re: Obama Threatens to Veto His Own Defense Bill Over F-22 Funding

    While I dont know to much about aircraft inparticular there is for sure something wrong with the way we dicide which equipment the millitary gets. If you need a few examples here are a few. The ACU the armys uniform that came out a some years back. It tears like nobodys buisness and the first time it gets somewhat dirty it never comes clean again. And they are not that cheap. Everyone who has had to wear one hates it. But somehow this is the uniform that won the contract after the army did testing on several new types of uniforms. Another example the Berretta M9 it is more expensive than many other handguns yet is less reliable than many cheaper guns but somehow this is the one that was selected. Either the people in charge of what we get have no idea what they are doing or there is some real unethical work going on here.
    Last edited by braindrain; 07-14-09 at 03:10 AM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Obama Threatens to Veto His Own Defense Bill Over F-22 Funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    Obama Threatens to Veto His Own Defense Bill Over F-22 Funding - Political News - FOXNews.com

    It's not every day that a president threatens to veto his own defense spending bill.

    But that's the rare position President Obama finds himself taking after senators made an 11th hour addition of $1.75 billion to buy seven F-22 fighter jets whose price tag has ballooned to about $350 million apiece.

    The fifth generation fighter jet has been overtaken by the newer F-35, critics argue, and Obama wants to keep with the recommendation of former President George W. Bush and cap the purchase at 187 jets.

    The president's not alone in opposing the change. He's also got the Democratic chairman of the Senate Armed Service Committee, Sen. Carl Levin, and his former GOP rival Sen. John McCain -- a war hero himself -- on his side.

    But with jobs on the line, other senators are putting up a fight for the F-22.

    Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., whose state would lose at least 2,000 jobs should the cap be imposed, pushed for the seven extra F-22's to be built.

    "While the administration is emphasizing winning current conflicts, its stance regarding the F-22 does not adequately account for other kinds of threats," Chambliss said.

    But the F-22 requires 30 hours of maintenance for every hour of flying time and costs the taxpayer about $44,000 an hour to fly, according to confidential Pentagon test results.

    First Off their should be no Cap on the F-22 this 350 Million Price tag is a bogus claim and has been all along. As for the Pentagon Report I call some real BS on this. I know for a fact that the numbers the USAF stated and what actually is in the field are far and wide try maybe 11.5 hours for every 2 hours of flight. But hey if the USAF wants to start throwing these number around then I say great lets release what the numbers are for the F-16 Block 45-65 and the F-15E Block 50 or the B-1B and B-52. Or better yet how about what the time is for 89th Airlift Wing which provide 24/7 SAM to the White House and Congress.

    As for the F-35 please that junk box want even be in active squadrons for at least 5 more years and into the Fleet for at least 6.
    Man I grew up near where they build those jets.
    It's my home county.

    Saxby is pandering for votes because he came close to loosing last year.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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