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Thread: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

  1. #81
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    The Balfour declaration did not form the Jewish State.
    It was an intervention.
    And it created the base for the raise of the Jewish state.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The one who's uneducated on the subjects he debates on in an astonishing way.
    Which appears to be you.

    You did not say "a reason". You claimed that someone couldn't call it propaganda unless they didn't believe the holocaust happened, otherwise it's cause and effect. Your words. Now, what does that mean? You said the Holocaust is cause and effect to the creation of Israel. YOU SAID THAT. So let's see who is uneducated. What is cause and effect? One choice or action which directly leads to an outcome of events. You claimed the holocaust as cause and effect, not that it's one of the causes not that it's a contributing cause, but that it is the full cause and effect. If it's cause and effect, then there is no reason why the other ethnic groups didn't get their homes either. Your own words overlook all the other ethnic groups which were abused and driven to near extinction since you claimed cause and effect. Your words, not mine.

    Only later when it was pointed out and you had to engage in hyperbole and spin against me did you claim the holocaust was just a factor, and then you went on to say a small factor at that. Which is contradictory to your original post when you claimed it as cause and effect. If it is only a small factor, then one can definitely call the use of the holocaust as reason to create Israel propaganda because at that point, the holocaust isn't a cause for the creation of and arguments which employ the holocaust as reasoning for the creation of Israel are nothing more than propaganda based on appeal to emotion.

    You can't have this both ways. You're changing definitions every post to try to keep up with your continued spinning of arguments. It's not my fault you're having a hard time keeping up with your own hyperbole and spin.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The Jews were not the only people persecuted in the Holocaust. They were not the only ethnic group rounded up and executed. In fact, other groups were driven to near extinction during it. Propaganda comes in for the fact that it was only the Jews for which arguments for a homeland were made. And I don't find the holocaust to be justifiable reason for the creation of a new country in hostile lands. So there was propaganda for the creation of Israel, if not then it would have been all or nothing. Other groups would have gotten homelands, or no one would have gotten homelands.

    The difference being, that the other ethnic groups--Romanis, Slavs, Pols--were already in their ethnic homelands. There was nowhere for a homeland to be stablished for them, beause they were already there. Why would you send the Pols anywhere, but Poland?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    You should watch carefully what letters you type on when you let your hands fall on the keyboard like that.
    Irony? I think so.

    BTW, it wasn't merely pointed at you, but rather the whole thread. My post said that, you just found it convenient to ignore that (that, or reading comprehension isn't your strong suit). In which people have critiqued the British government for withdrawing their weapons contract based on evidence and reports that the Israeli army may not be using them as specified. All of a sudden, it's "giving into propaganda" or whatever. Britain didn't just go along with whatever Israel wanted, and now people have jumped on them for not following Israel. It's their weapons, their choice. But when people start talking against Israel or critiquing them in anyway, there are a good group of people who get hopping mad and have to start ranting about crap. No one is innocent in the Israel/Palestine conflict, maybe Britain just awoke to that fact.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The difference being, that the other ethnic groups--Romanis, Slavs, Pols--were already in their ethnic homelands. There was nowhere for a homeland to be stablished for them, beause they were already there. Why would you send the Pols anywhere, but Poland?
    the word homeland creeps me out anyway. I picture a bunch of people from Stormfront whenever I hear the term.

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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Irony? I think so.
    Your thought is ignored.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You can't have this both ways. You're changing definitions every post to try to keep up with your continued spinning of arguments. It's not my fault you're having a hard time keeping up with your own hyperbole and spin.
    No, I'm not changing definitions.
    You clearly cannot follow the arguments as you do not possess any kind of knowledge on the issue.
    I don't see why you would be so sensitive to this, it's not like I get hurt when someone says that I have no idea about African elephants, that is true, I really don't.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You said the Holocaust is cause and effect to the creation of Israel. YOU SAID THAT.
    I wish to devote a whole post to this quote.
    Please, Ikari, explain to me how the holocaust can be both the cause and the effect to the creation of Israel.
    I said that it was the cause, not the effect.
    Clearly the effect was the creation of Israel.
    How can the holocaust be both the cause and the effect to the creation of Israel?
    Wouldn't Israel need to be the effect?
    Is that not wrong?

    My words also do not neglect that there are other causes as well, and bigger causes too.
    You are engaged in a ridiculous try to debunk my words while only saying silly and weird stuff in the process.
    Why do you keep debating on an issue you have no understanding of?
    What is it that drives you to do that?
    I know that they always tell if you don't ask you won't know, but this is just too much.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Your thought is ignored.
    Seems to be about the only way you can handle debate.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    There is tolerance and there is cultural self-hatred, and often times the latter masquerades as the former.

    Until people learn to use a little reason in regards to WHAT they tolerate, they aren't really fostering tolerance at all, and make that double for those who have been hoodwinked into viewing their own western liberal culture as somehow inferior to those stuck in the stone age.
    Well i guess the question here is whether unconditional support of Isreal is condusive to liberal culture. I wouldnt regard their reckless disregard for civillian casualties as being condusive to this nor would I regard tolerating the current loss of palestinian land to the separation wall as being particually liberal.

    Not to mention that the Brittish empire was one of the most iliberal insitutions the world has ever seen
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 07-13-09 at 02:03 PM.

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