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Thread: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

  1. #61
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    K, but there were more than Jews killed by Hitler in the holocaust. He went after several ethnic groups, near wiped some out right? So if the Holocaust was a contributing factor, how come it didn't also spawn arguments for countries for the other ethnic groups who were systematically hunted down and killed?
    Right.
    I think because the media played it up, they were highlighted not the gypsies who i also think deserve a country as much as Jews and Europe did not want to take them in still so supported the idea of a Jewish state

    And guilt played a massive role and some can argue still does.
    It was a collective thing Europeans and indeed the rest of the world felt.


  2. #62
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    The site chosen was the worst possible site if the end game was to create a safe haven. That was just propaganda, the plan was always to reoccupy the holy land regardless of risk factors associated with life there.
    Was it "marketed" as a safe haven, or just the biblical "promised land" of the Israeli's? I have never heard it referred to in any historical text as a safe haven.

  3. #63
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    No, propagandist claims shape reality in a false way.
    And yet measured reality does indicate that in hindsight we have caused more conflict than we have solved by the creation of Israel in the place where it currently is located. So I asked, how that was propaganda. Or even the fact that Israel's base creation was based off of propaganda after WW II. That is also measured reality.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #64
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Right.
    I think because the media played it up, they were highlighted not the gypsies who i also think deserve a country as much as Jews and Europe did not want to take them in still so supported the idea of a Jewish state

    And guilt played a massive role and some can argue still does.
    It was a collective thing Europeans and indeed the rest of the world felt.
    Guilt for what? We didn't do anything. And if it were collective guilt, again why only the Jews? There are just as oppressed ethnicities out there too, why didn't we feel "guilt" for them too? In the end, I don't think any of it is really cause for a creation of a State in hostile lands. I mean, we can't change the past, but if you were to objectively look at it one couldn't help but question the decision.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #65
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    In the end, what's done is done and Israel now exists and people need to get over it an acknowledge that. But at the same accord, I don't think we need to blindly support Israel just because it's Israel. It does seem that often times critique against Israel is met with accusations of bigotry or other nonsense. It may not be all the time, but it does seem to happen in general (not localized to this board).
    No country needs to be blindly supported, and Israel is not blindly supported.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  6. #66
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    There is little evidence that british weapons was used apart form the say so of Amenesty International
    It seems it may be occuring because of this.
    BBC NEWS | UK | UK sued over Israeli arms sales

    I was critical of Gaza and Israel's actions but not because of the principal that Israel had the right to protect one self but because i got the feeling that the siege occured for no good reason outside of political gain. It did not manage to achieve the end it wished, remove Hamas or stop rockets. They continued falling and the death toll seemed too one sided.

    Maybe it is just me who is concerned we are bowing to pressure groups at the drop of a hat.
    If Israel says it did not use it, take its word for it unless there is undeniable evidence that it did use it.
    Well according to the article the Isrealis havent dennied that they used our weapons in Gaza, they denny that they commited any war crimes. As the article said the FCO conducted a review before making this decision so its not as if they are just following amnesty unthinkingly. Either way I think its fair to say an organisation with a 2.1 billion budget with one of the worlds best intelligence agencys under its command would have a pretty good idea of whats going on. And again why is AI such an untrustworthy source?

  7. #67
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    No country needs to be blindly supported, and Israel is not blindly supported.
    I will wholeheartedly disagree with that statement.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #68
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And yet measured reality does indicate that in hindsight we have caused more conflict than we have solved by the creation of Israel in the place where it currently is located. So I asked, how that was propaganda. Or even the fact that Israel's base creation was based off of propaganda after WW II. That is also measured reality.
    It can only be called as propaganda if one doesn't believe the holocaust existed, otherwise it's just cause and effect.
    And besides, the Zionist movement existed and acted towards the creation of the Jewish homeland in Israel since the 19th century.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I will wholeheartedly disagree with that statement.
    And I will wholeheartedly disagree with your wholehearted disagreement.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  10. #70
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    Re: UK cuts Israel weapons contracts

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Was it "marketed" as a safe haven, or just the biblical "promised land" of the Israeli's? I have never heard it referred to in any historical text as a safe haven.
    I believe it was marketed as a safe haven. That is certainly a reason given by Truman when officially recognizing their formation.

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