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Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

EgoffTib said:
Okay... and?
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So it is idiotic to be sitting there like a little ignorant idiot teenager saying in a little girl voice or stoner pothead voice "Its hypocritical because it saying if you kill,we will kill you"
 
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EgoffTib said:
Yeah, think about all of the prison breaks we have every year... :shock:
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Yeah, think about those 6,000 prison breaks a year.

A murderer serving life, who had already excaped three times, escaped from a Federal prison three miles from my parents's house.

So, yeah, the death penalty is in the interest of public safety.
 
Glad he's gone! But i think they should add child molesters, and rapist, to the list also.

But then I also think we should add corrupt politicians to the list because they are traitors.
 
EgoffTib said:
"If you kill, you will be killed." Sounds hypocritical...
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Okay, then lets do it California San Quentin Style....


"If you kill, you will be rewarded with air conditioned accommodations, a college style campus, and you even have a chance to be a part of a real sports team."
 
Caine said:
Okay, then lets do it California San Quentin Style....


"If you kill, you will be rewarded with air conditioned accommodations, a college style campus, and you even have a chance to be a part of a real sports team."
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This is why the prison system in this country is ****ed. It is the equivalent of grounding a child to his room when he has a tv,computer,internet, phone and other luxuries.
 
Caine said:
Okay, then lets do it California San Quentin Style....


"If you kill, you will be rewarded with air conditioned accommodations, a college style campus, and you even have a chance to be a part of a real sports team."
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..But aren't they still prevented from presenting further harm to society? Exaggerations aside, shouldn't that be the point of it anyway, rather than seeing the punishment as an expresion of some Godlike authority to condemn people to suffering and death because they break society's most ironclad rules? ... I dunno. I mean, you'd have to be pretty sick mentally to murder someone anyway, so can you really argue that having the death penalty discourages people from murder any more? I don't know the statistics, so I don't know exactly, but maybe in NZ (home country) or England, the per capita murder rates aren't that different to, say, Texas?
 
Caine said:
Personally I think the lack of physical punishment of children is what is causing our newer generations to be so god damned lacking in discipline.
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Again, any actual empirical research that indicates any "lack of discipline" or that corporal punishment would alleviate that problem if it did exist, or is that more of your good ole' "common sense"?
 
Glowfish said:
..But aren't they still prevented from presenting further harm to society? Exaggerations aside, shouldn't that be the point of it anyway, rather than seeing the punishment as an expresion of some Godlike authority to condemn people to suffering and death because they break society's most ironclad rules? ... I dunno. I mean, you'd have to be pretty sick mentally to murder someone anyway, so can you really argue that having the death penalty discourages people from murder any more? I don't know the statistics, so I don't know exactly, but maybe in NZ (home country) or England, the per capita murder rates aren't that different to, say, Texas?
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Not all murderers are mentally ill, and the last time I checked, dead murderers pose no risk to society. If the threat of receiving the death penalty isn't discouraging the act of murder, then maybe we're doing it wrong. For example, if someone rapes and then stabs someone to death, they should be executed in the same manner. Maybe that would give them something to think about before they take someone else's life.
 
hiswoman said:
Not all murderers are mentally ill, and the last time I checked, dead murderers pose no risk to society. If the threat of receiving the death penalty isn't discouraging the act of murder, then maybe we're doing it wrong. For example, if someone rapes and then stabs someone to death, they should be executed in the same manner. Maybe that would give them something to think about before they take someone else's life.
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So do you think the only reason that people rape and murder people is because they're not being threatened with big enough punishments? Would everyone go around killing and raping people if they're weren't going to punished in return? By that logic, New Zealand, which doesn't even have a life sentence, would have a far higher per capita rate of murder and rape than America, wouldn't it? Surely the basic logic that killing or harming others of our own species is detrimental to the human race is ingrained in almost all humans? So there must be SOMETHING screwed up about someone who breaks that logic, right? Well, that was my thinking anyway, although of course you're right that murderes aren't all 'mentally ill' in an easily definably sense.

And you're right that killing them prevents them from hurting anyone else, but that doesn't make it the BEST way. I guess my thinking is that, while the death penalty works a dream for Singapore,etc when it comes to smuggling drugs (I've heard that Singapore's drug problems are in the region of non-existant! :shock:), murdering people who murder others doesn't seem to have as good an effect in discouraging people from murder any more than less severe punishments.
 
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Agnapostate said:
Again, any actual empirical research that indicates any "lack of discipline" or that corporal punishment would alleviate that problem if it did exist, or is that more of your good ole' "common sense"?
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Why are people on this forum so against the idea of JUST "common sense"? You don't actually believe that the addition of "evidence" actually makes people change their opinons, do you? People believe what ever they want to believe - debating is about helping YOU and other people think, not making them agree with you. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." Slamming evidence in eachother's faces in a "mine's bigger than yours!" doesn't work in practice, because anyone can call anybody else's evidence bogus if they're that unwilling to concede, right?
 
Smoke[MaxX] said:
Ignorance is bliss isn't it? I'm glad you're a supporter of child abuse and wish we were the United States of America (minus California).
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You are GLAD he supports child abuse? That's mighty presumptuous boy. He never said he supported child abuse.
 
The death penalty: putting bad men down since 1776! :applaud
 
Glowfish said:
Why are people on this forum so against the idea of JUST "common sense"? You don't actually believe that the addition of "evidence" actually makes people change their opinons, do you? People believe what ever they want to believe - debating is about helping YOU and other people think, not making them agree with you. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." Slamming evidence in eachother's faces in a "mine's bigger than yours!" doesn't work in practice, because anyone can call anybody else's evidence bogus if they're that unwilling to concede, right?
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Actually, most people would agree that I'm on the more rigid end when it comes to this in that I can be uptight as hell in demanding valid empirical research in these instances. The reason for that is because some seem to believe that their personal experiences or anectodal reports are a sufficient basis for policy formation. But the vast heterogeneity of the spectrum of human experiences renders any such arrangement useless, which is why I consider statistical analysis of large data sets necessary. The usage of corporal punishment as a generally sound parenting practice was advocated, and I therefore needed such analysis rather than anecodtal speculation to form a sound opinion.
 
Glowfish said:
..But aren't they still prevented from presenting further harm to society? Exaggerations aside, shouldn't that be the point of it anyway, rather than seeing the punishment as an expresion of some Godlike authority to condemn people to suffering and death because they break society's most ironclad rules? ... I dunno. I mean, you'd have to be pretty sick mentally to murder someone anyway, so can you really argue that having the death penalty discourages people from murder any more? I don't know the statistics, so I don't know exactly, but maybe in NZ (home country) or England, the per capita murder rates aren't that different to, say, Texas?
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No.

One can't argue that having the death penalty deters crimes invoking that sentence.

Carrying out the sentence on a reliable basis swiftly.

That's the deterrent.

When we get back to executing murders on an assembly line basis, we'll soon see a decline in the number of crimes requireing execution being committed.
 
Glowfish said:
Why are people on this forum so against the idea of JUST "common sense"?
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Just common sense is the notion that the price for a life should be a life.

Just common sense says that the would be recidivist can't embark on his career when he's dead.

Just common sense says that the current problem with the failure of capital punishment to deter crimes is the flocks of vultures profitting from preserving the convict's useless criminal life for no reason whatsoever except for their own lust to be paid.
 
Actually, while the theoretical approach to capital punishment's "deterrence" effect seems plausible, it seems that sound empirical research into the deterrence effect of capital punishment seems somewhat problematic. For example, Zimmerman's Estimates of the Deterrent Effect of Alternative Execution Methods in the United States: 1978-2000 notes that "[t]he empirical estimates suggest that the deterrent effect of capital punishment is driven primarily by executions conducted by electrocution. None of the other four methods of execution (lethal injection, gas chamber asphyxiation, hanging, and/or firing squad) are found to have a statistically significant impact on the per capita incidence of murder." That doesn't seem to be at all a sound conclusion, which indicates that there are methodological deficiencies present in the existing empirical research that corrupt the accuracy of their findings.
 
Fine.

Then we install guillotines and whack their heads off, and put it on cable for all to see, if that's what's needed.

I've no objections.

Or a wood chipper or a steam roller or we can do the Cask of Amontillado thing from Poe.

Clearly what's needed are more executions, with varied methods in the various states, to determine which methods produced the greatest deterrent effect in a scientific manner.

I don't really care how Jose Avilla is executed, so long as he's eradicated soon.
 
Agnapostate said:
Actually, while the theoretical approach to capital punishment's "deterrence" effect seems plausible, it seems that sound empirical research into the deterrence effect of capital punishment seems somewhat problematic. For example, Zimmerman's Estimates of the Deterrent Effect of Alternative Execution Methods in the United States: 1978-2000 notes that "[t]he empirical estimates suggest that the deterrent effect of capital punishment is driven primarily by executions conducted by electrocution. None of the other four methods of execution (lethal injection, gas chamber asphyxiation, hanging, and/or firing squad) are found to have a statistically significant impact on the per capita incidence of murder." That doesn't seem to be at all a sound conclusion, which indicates that there are methodological deficiencies present in the existing empirical research that corrupt the accuracy of their findings.
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I think the problem is inconsistency of the punishments. Sometimes you'll get the death penalty and sometimes you get life. Then there is the fact they are granted a lot of appeals. If someone was convicted with solid evidence then there is no reason we should wait 10 years after that person was convicted for his sentence to take place.
 
Ten years is short.

Most convicts on Death Row die of old age, not deliberate state intent.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Ten years is short.

Most convicts on Death Row die of old age, not deliberate state intent.
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I am sure in liberal states like California where most of the population feels sorry scum that is true. Ten years is still a long time.
 
danarhea said:
You know, while I do have a problem with the death penalty for several reasons, the main one being that, occasionally, an innocent is executed, I don't really have a problem with it being applied here. Want to know why the attorney for Michael Delozier, the defendant, claimed he should not be put to death?
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No one ever said the system was perfect.

I fully support the death penalty. Especially for people that blame their poor me BS on someone else. Screw them, and their leftist attorney.
 
jamesrage said:
So it is idiotic to be sitting there like a little ignorant idiot teenager saying in a little girl voice or stoner pothead voice "Its hypocritical because it saying if you kill,we will kill you"
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This is what you've got? Puerile personal attacks? Certainly says something about your position.
 
jamesrage said:
I am sure in liberal states like California where most of the population feels sorry scum that is true. Ten years is still a long time.
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I'm just saying.

My own opinion says that six months is a really long time to go between sentencing and execution.

How long does it take to go over the trial transcripts and see where a real violation of procedure happened, as opposed to the phony ones the lawyes dig up over the course of the typical multi-decadal appeal process?

Shouldn't take longer than a few months, and the sentence shouldn't be withheld just because it turns out that the convict's mommy didn't give him a birthday cake.
 
Agnapostate said:
Again, any actual empirical research that indicates any "lack of discipline" or that corporal punishment would alleviate that problem if it did exist, or is that more of your good ole' "common sense"?
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Yep.

Common sense.

And people like you are the cause of why common sense isn't so common anymore.
 
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