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Thread: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

  1. #61
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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Yep.

    Common sense.

    And people like you are the cause of why common sense isn't so common anymore.
    So you're operating under the premise that people stupid enough to murder have "common sense", as you put it? Solid plan.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Glowfish View Post
    So do you think the only reason that people rape and murder people is because they're not being threatened with big enough punishments? Would everyone go around killing and raping people if they're weren't going to punished in return? By that logic, New Zealand, which doesn't even have a life sentence, would have a far higher per capita rate of murder and rape than America, wouldn't it? Surely the basic logic that killing or harming others of our own species is detrimental to the human race is ingrained in almost all humans? So there must be SOMETHING screwed up about someone who breaks that logic, right? Well, that was my thinking anyway, although of course you're right that murderes aren't all 'mentally ill' in an easily definably sense.

    And you're right that killing them prevents them from hurting anyone else, but that doesn't make it the BEST way. I guess my thinking is that, while the death penalty works a dream for Singapore,etc when it comes to smuggling drugs (I've heard that Singapore's drug problems are in the region of non-existant! ), murdering people who murder others doesn't seem to have as good an effect in discouraging people from murder any more than less severe punishments.
    No. I speculated that it might be a factor. All I can say for certain is that when a murderer is executed, that's one less violent criminal in the world that will prey upon society, leaving death and untold grief in their wake. That makes it worth it to me.

  3. #63
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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    So you're operating under the premise that people stupid enough to murder have "common sense", as you put it? Solid plan.
    Are you arguing that if we didn't punish criminals then the crime rate wouldn't go up? A lot of people do care about the consequences.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Are you arguing that if we didn't punish criminals then the crime rate wouldn't go up?
    No, I'm arguing that corporal punishment is obviously no deterrent for committing crimes. Instead it costs more and is rather primitive.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    So you're operating under the premise that people stupid enough to murder have "common sense", as you put it? Solid plan.
    Common sense comment wasn't directed at 'people stupid enough to murder'

    It was directed at Agnasty-prostate for his comment about 'empircal evidence research blah blah proof that disciplining a child can prevent them from becoming a criminal later in life' blah blah blah.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    No, I'm arguing that corporal punishment is obviously no deterrent for committing crimes. Instead it costs more and is rather primitive.
    Just because something isn't 100% effective doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

    That has and will always be the most ineffective argument against punishment for crimes committed.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    ...

    How long does it take to go over the trial transcripts and see where a real violation of procedure happened, ...

    Shouldn't take longer than a few months, ...
    It's not just procedure that is looked at, but evidence as well.
    'If', and that is a big 'if', all the lawyers and the Court involved could exclusively dedicate their time and have unlimited resources, most cases probably could be settled in just a 'few months'.
    But that isn't feasible, and the expense to do such would be enormous.



    Quote Originally Posted by hiswoman View Post
    All I can say for certain is that when a murderer is executed, that's one less violent criminal in the world that will prey upon society, leaving death and untold grief in their wake.
    That makes it worth it to me.
    You do realize that those who have committed murder and have been released, are in a group that are least likely to re-offend/lowest recidivism rates.
    To me that is an indication that the death penalty is not worth while pursuing except in cases where a person could not be rehabilitated.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    except in cases where a person could not be rehabilitated.
    And meanwhile, we can risk the lives of additional people finding out which cases those are....
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    It's not just procedure that is looked at, but evidence as well.
    'If', and that is a big 'if', all the lawyers and the Court involved could exclusively dedicate their time and have unlimited resources, most cases probably could be settled in just a 'few months'.
    But that isn't feasible, and the expense to do such would be enormous.
    Sure it's feasible. Let the capital cases get head of the line privilege, shovel them through.

    Take the case of Jose Avilla, as open and shut as will ever be seen in law. His DNA is inside his five year old victim, her DNA is in his car. Eye witness to the snatching, she's only five, but her description was accurate enough for the artist composite to match the accused. Tire track molds at the scene where the body is found match the car.

    All solid evidence. Absolutely zero doubt that he's the animal that killed that little girl.

    It doesn't take five years to review this evidence.

    It doesn't take a week.

    It doesn't take five years to review the court proceeding and determine the process was done correctly.

    That wouldn't take a month.

    Yet this condemned child killer is alive and wasting precious oxygen five years later.

    Why?

    Because lawyers are making money by appealing the locations of commas and other trivia.

    The state appeals should re-certify the evidence and the court procedure.

    The federal government should only be concerned if the accused was denied some Constitutional right that would invalidate the trial. If that court ruled no, then that's the end of it.

    Lawyers that repeatedly file frivolous nonsense that clearly has no basis in law merely to delay the execution of the sentence should be fined and disbarred, and possibly required to pay the court costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    You do realize that those who have committed murder and have been released, are in a group that are least likely to re-offend/lowest recidivism rates.
    Oh, well, then why bother with prisons at all. Just get a conviction and let them go.



    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    To me that is an indication that the death penalty is not worth while pursuing except in cases where a person could not be rehabilitated.
    When they're dead, you don't have to worry about their rehabilitation. They're done habilitating.

    They're also done murdering.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    And meanwhile, we can risk the lives of additional people finding out which cases those are...
    No, you find out while they are incarcerated and release only those who may not re-offend.
    Meanwhile it is more likely that a person will be killed by someone who hasn't been convicted of murder, so your statement is just fear mongering.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Sure it's feasible. Let the capital cases get head of the line privilege, shovel them through.
    And thereby increasing the expenditures of those cases that are delayed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Take the case of Jose Avilla, ...
    I have no knowledge of this case.
    Please provide a link so I can accurately ascertain whether what you say is true, or not.



    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    That wouldn't take a month.
    It may be possible to do so in some cases, if as I said, the lawyers (and all involved) were able to exclusively dedicate their time and have unlimited resources. But that isn't possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Because lawyers are making money by appealing the locations of commas and other trivia.
    Bs


    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The state appeals should re-certify the evidence and the court procedure.
    Should?
    No they shouldn't.




    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    The federal government should only be concerned if the accused was denied some Constitutional right that would invalidate the trial. If that court ruled no, then that's the end of it.
    Anything that substantially effects due process is a violation of a Constitutional 'Right'.




    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Lawyers that repeatedly file frivolous nonsense that clearly has no basis in law merely to delay the execution of the sentence should be fined and disbarred, and possibly required to pay the court costs.
    What you may call frivolous, may in fact not actually be frivolous at all.




    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Oh, well, then why bother with prisons at all. Just get a conviction and let them go.

    I guess from from your smiley, you know this is a ridiculous statement, because it totally removes the punishment for doing wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    When they're dead, you don't have to worry about their rehabilitation. They're done habilitating.
    As the system currently is, it is cheaper to rehabilitate and release than it is to incarcerate or kill. Costs could further be reduced if early detection and education could be implemented at early ages, which would reduce the amount of crimes committed.



    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    They're also done murdering.
    The likelyhood is that they were done murdering after it happened the first time. So killing those who wouldn't re-offend serves no purpose other than vengeance.

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