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Thread: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Okay, then lets do it California San Quentin Style....


    "If you kill, you will be rewarded with air conditioned accommodations, a college style campus, and you even have a chance to be a part of a real sports team."

    ..But aren't they still prevented from presenting further harm to society? Exaggerations aside, shouldn't that be the point of it anyway, rather than seeing the punishment as an expresion of some Godlike authority to condemn people to suffering and death because they break society's most ironclad rules? ... I dunno. I mean, you'd have to be pretty sick mentally to murder someone anyway, so can you really argue that having the death penalty discourages people from murder any more? I don't know the statistics, so I don't know exactly, but maybe in NZ (home country) or England, the per capita murder rates aren't that different to, say, Texas?
    "I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me."
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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Personally I think the lack of physical punishment of children is what is causing our newer generations to be so god damned lacking in discipline.
    Again, any actual empirical research that indicates any "lack of discipline" or that corporal punishment would alleviate that problem if it did exist, or is that more of your good ole' "common sense"?

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Glowfish View Post
    ..But aren't they still prevented from presenting further harm to society? Exaggerations aside, shouldn't that be the point of it anyway, rather than seeing the punishment as an expresion of some Godlike authority to condemn people to suffering and death because they break society's most ironclad rules? ... I dunno. I mean, you'd have to be pretty sick mentally to murder someone anyway, so can you really argue that having the death penalty discourages people from murder any more? I don't know the statistics, so I don't know exactly, but maybe in NZ (home country) or England, the per capita murder rates aren't that different to, say, Texas?
    Not all murderers are mentally ill, and the last time I checked, dead murderers pose no risk to society. If the threat of receiving the death penalty isn't discouraging the act of murder, then maybe we're doing it wrong. For example, if someone rapes and then stabs someone to death, they should be executed in the same manner. Maybe that would give them something to think about before they take someone else's life.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by hiswoman View Post
    Not all murderers are mentally ill, and the last time I checked, dead murderers pose no risk to society. If the threat of receiving the death penalty isn't discouraging the act of murder, then maybe we're doing it wrong. For example, if someone rapes and then stabs someone to death, they should be executed in the same manner. Maybe that would give them something to think about before they take someone else's life.
    So do you think the only reason that people rape and murder people is because they're not being threatened with big enough punishments? Would everyone go around killing and raping people if they're weren't going to punished in return? By that logic, New Zealand, which doesn't even have a life sentence, would have a far higher per capita rate of murder and rape than America, wouldn't it? Surely the basic logic that killing or harming others of our own species is detrimental to the human race is ingrained in almost all humans? So there must be SOMETHING screwed up about someone who breaks that logic, right? Well, that was my thinking anyway, although of course you're right that murderes aren't all 'mentally ill' in an easily definably sense.

    And you're right that killing them prevents them from hurting anyone else, but that doesn't make it the BEST way. I guess my thinking is that, while the death penalty works a dream for Singapore,etc when it comes to smuggling drugs (I've heard that Singapore's drug problems are in the region of non-existant! ), murdering people who murder others doesn't seem to have as good an effect in discouraging people from murder any more than less severe punishments.
    Last edited by Glowfish; 07-13-09 at 06:32 AM.
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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Again, any actual empirical research that indicates any "lack of discipline" or that corporal punishment would alleviate that problem if it did exist, or is that more of your good ole' "common sense"?
    Why are people on this forum so against the idea of JUST "common sense"? You don't actually believe that the addition of "evidence" actually makes people change their opinons, do you? People believe what ever they want to believe - debating is about helping YOU and other people think, not making them agree with you. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." Slamming evidence in eachother's faces in a "mine's bigger than yours!" doesn't work in practice, because anyone can call anybody else's evidence bogus if they're that unwilling to concede, right?
    "I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me."
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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke[MaxX] View Post
    Ignorance is bliss isn't it? I'm glad you're a supporter of child abuse and wish we were the United States of America (minus California).
    You are GLAD he supports child abuse? That's mighty presumptuous boy. He never said he supported child abuse.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    The death penalty: putting bad men down since 1776!
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Glowfish View Post
    Why are people on this forum so against the idea of JUST "common sense"? You don't actually believe that the addition of "evidence" actually makes people change their opinons, do you? People believe what ever they want to believe - debating is about helping YOU and other people think, not making them agree with you. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." Slamming evidence in eachother's faces in a "mine's bigger than yours!" doesn't work in practice, because anyone can call anybody else's evidence bogus if they're that unwilling to concede, right?
    Actually, most people would agree that I'm on the more rigid end when it comes to this in that I can be uptight as hell in demanding valid empirical research in these instances. The reason for that is because some seem to believe that their personal experiences or anectodal reports are a sufficient basis for policy formation. But the vast heterogeneity of the spectrum of human experiences renders any such arrangement useless, which is why I consider statistical analysis of large data sets necessary. The usage of corporal punishment as a generally sound parenting practice was advocated, and I therefore needed such analysis rather than anecodtal speculation to form a sound opinion.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by formerroadie View Post
    I abhor the death penalty. It should be illegal in every state.
    why stop at the 50 states, when you have the entire world to rule with your beliefs.

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    Re: Oklahoma executes man who murdered two campers

    Quote Originally Posted by Glowfish View Post
    ..But aren't they still prevented from presenting further harm to society? Exaggerations aside, shouldn't that be the point of it anyway, rather than seeing the punishment as an expresion of some Godlike authority to condemn people to suffering and death because they break society's most ironclad rules? ... I dunno. I mean, you'd have to be pretty sick mentally to murder someone anyway, so can you really argue that having the death penalty discourages people from murder any more? I don't know the statistics, so I don't know exactly, but maybe in NZ (home country) or England, the per capita murder rates aren't that different to, say, Texas?
    No.

    One can't argue that having the death penalty deters crimes invoking that sentence.

    Carrying out the sentence on a reliable basis swiftly.

    That's the deterrent.

    When we get back to executing murders on an assembly line basis, we'll soon see a decline in the number of crimes requireing execution being committed.

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