View Poll Results: Is warrantless wiretapping and this kind of surveillance necessary?

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Thread: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

  1. #11
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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    Of course he authorized secret intelligence programs that where not made public.
    I don't care about things being made to the public. I care about wide-ranging expansions of the executive branch and authorizing infringements on individual's civil liberties and privacy. I don't care that the methods were made public. I care that the methods were used at all.

    What a stupid report..well no the reports not stupid its just a report...whats stupid is how the media makes it into somehting more then nothing and how those the media is playing too actually think this crap is profound in some way.
    It is profound. September 11, the War on Terror, the Patriot Act and the many things each entailed are very, very "profound".

    BTW Obam is doing the same..
    Impeach him?..or is he too brown on the outside for you to do that?
    Can you make an argument without resorting to racially charged statements?
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
    -TR

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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post

    Can you make an argument without resorting to racially charged statements?

    Why not if you we start calling him out (Mr Obama) or better yet the Press then we are called racist for attacking him, don't forget it's been the folks on the Left who have been the first to throw out the So-Called Race Card when it comes to Mr. Obama. I suggest that they should stop the race card issue first.

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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    1-All those wire tape that past President used were warrantless wiretapping this is has been the hallmark of these wiretaps. They are check bya federal Judge before they are impleminted.
    "the NSA is or was provided total, unsupervised access to all fiber-optic communications going between some of the nation's major telecommunication companies' major interconnect locations, including phone conversations, email, web browsing, and corporate private network traffic."

    Nothing has ever happened on that scale. And warrantless would mean it was not approved and justified by a third party... the President gave the NSA large and new powers it did not have before.

    2-The report does mention any other other "ILLEGAL" methods as a matter of fact no where in the AP report is the subject discussed.
    If you read the article then you would know it is currently classified.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
    -TR

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    Advisor Tubub's Avatar
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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    Why not if you we start calling him out (Mr Obama) or better yet the Press then we are called racist for attacking him, don't forget it's been the folks on the Left who have been the first to throw out the So-Called Race Card when it comes to Mr. Obama. I suggest that they should stop the race card issue first.
    "Folks on the left", which could mean a vaerity of things, have for the most part not blindly appealed to racist sentiment when talking about Obama... If they cite his race, they do it because having an Afro-American President would and does have positive foreign policy benefits. Idiots on the left are excluded, so if you are admitting you are the idiots of the right then I will accept your position but still condemn your racially charged statements.
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
    -TR

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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    "the NSA is or was provided total, unsupervised access to all fiber-optic communications going between some of the nation's major telecommunication companies' major interconnect locations, including phone conversations, email, web browsing, and corporate private network traffic."

    Nothing has ever happened on that scale. And warrantless would mean it was not approved and justified by a third party... the President gave the NSA large and new powers it did not have before.



    If you read the article then you would know it is currently classified.

    No the President give the NSA/NSC any new powers all Mr. Bush did was expand powers that Mr. Clinton approved in 1999 and that both the Supreme Court and the Gang of Eight agreed on.

    You do understand that both a Federal Judge and The Gang of Eight do get to see any of the Wiretap paperwork before they are enacted right if not then maybe I should break it down on how the NSC/NSC/CIA/DOD go about filing for and getting a Wiretap.

    (Oh and before someone accuse me of violating some classified document that I might have sign. don't worry this is all in the public if you want more info. Then send a FOIA to The Office of the President/Dept. of Defensive or United States Surpeme Court or better yet send one to the Gang of Eight.

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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
    No the President give the NSA/NSC any new powers all Mr. Bush did was expand powers that Mr. Clinton approved in 1999 and that both the Supreme Court and the Gang of Eight agreed on.
    Cite any evidence of this.
    You do understand that both a Federal Judge and The Gang of Eight do get to see any of the Wiretap paperwork before they are enacted right if not then maybe I should break it down on how the NSC/NSC/CIA/DOD go about filing for and getting a Wiretap.
    You do understand that would mean it is warranted and not warrantless since it is being approved by a Judge or "The Gang of Eight". George W. Bush authorized surveillance of international surveillance to be done without a warrant... do you want me to explain how this works?
    “Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure...than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.”
    -TR

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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Cite any evidence of this.

    You do understand that would mean it is warranted and not warrantless since it is being approved by a Judge or "The Gang of Eight". George W. Bush authorized surveillance of international surveillance to be done without a warrant... do you want me to explain how this works?
    Sorry I was wrong July of 1993,

    United States Signals Intelligence Directive (USSID) 18 - 27 July 1993

    You do understand that even thou it a warrantless it still has to go thru the FISC and the Gang of Eight has outlined in US Code 50 Section 36 S.1566

    Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    What is very funny is who was the Sponsor of S.1566

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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    I don't care about things being made to the public. I care about wide-ranging expansions of the executive branch and authorizing infringements on individual's civil liberties and privacy. I don't care that the methods were made public. I care that the methods were used at all.
    What are these methods?..don't bother Nobody knows.
    Could be some of that super secret stuff some reporters find in their cubicles on a Friday.The article seems to be mixing things they found out about years ago with the "report". Shrug.


    Since we have no idea..lets assume shall we.
    Lets assume its a data sniffer he approved. Meaning the 'they' have super computers that monitor cell phones for key words etc..then keep huge fields on names of individuals who meet certain theorycraft on who may or may not be a member of al Qaeda.
    Yeah ok...

    Doesn't that make sense to you? Don't you think thats a good idea during a war.
    "Knowing is half the Battle".. GI Joe is there?

    Don't you think the real world effect on your civil liberties is not nearly as profound and bad in that hypothetical or real life cases?



    I think reality has shown your liberties in this are not being infringed upon in a manner to warrant this black helicoptor style 'they' are coming for us nonsense.Instead these actions are are preserving those liberties and protecting them ....and those who practice them.

    He didn't seize control of a publicly owned company or anything..
    He approved of highly classified(and undefined remember) actions that improved the intelligence aspects/capabilities of the USA while the USA is at War. Without unduly harming the lives/right/liberties/whatever of Americans.

    It seems to have been and be working very well... at least in defense of the homefront.


    /

    It is profound. September 11, the War on Terror, the Patriot Act and the many things each entailed are very, very "profound".
    Its doesn't even get to the boring legalese level of the Patriot Act...

    "President Authorized Super Secret Intelligence Actions"

    That is not profound information its Common Sense information...makes a snazy headline. C'mon.


    /

    Can you make an argument without resorting to racially charged statements?
    I'm not afraid to ask the racially charged questions.
    It is a starkly obvious and undeniably plausable reason why those who would like to portray this information in a nefarious way would not want to Impeach O for these same evil acts..
    But maybe not..maybe its the (D).
    Last edited by Triad; 07-10-09 at 11:43 PM.

  9. #19
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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    I don't feel as if my civil rights have been infringed, if someone listens in on my phone conversations. One, because I feel like a phone conversation is no more private than talking to someone sitting in a resturant. Two, they'll be real disappointed at what they hear.

    However, I will feel like my civil rights have been infringed on if I'm locked up for political reasons, or because I'm accused of breaking some political correctness law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #20
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    Re: Report: Bush program extended beyond wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    One, because I feel like a phone conversation is no more private than talking to someone sitting in a resturant. T
    How did you come to this conclusion?

    I would think it quite the opposite.
    Nationalism in high dosages may be hazardous to your health. Please consult a psychiatrist before beginning a regular regimen, and if feelings of elitism and douchbaggery continue, discontinue immediately before you become unable to do so on your own.

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