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Thread: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Children, especially poor children, have many costs to both their parents and society. If you are denying even that most basic premise, when what you are saying flies right in the face of practically everything you frequently complain about in terms of social programs, then there is really no point in continuing this discussion.
    I agree that further discussion with you is futile. Your position is disgusting, despicable, and contemptible. Parents do expend money, time, and emotion on their children--but that does not make children "costs". Children are not a burden that drags the parent down. Children are not a blight upon society. CHILDREN ARE NOT A "COST".

    Period. End of Sentence. End of Discussion.

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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Children are not a burden that drags the parent down. Children are not a blight upon society. CHILDREN ARE NOT A "COST".

    Period. End of Sentence. End of Discussion.
    And yet many conservatives would rather children DIE on the street rather than give social programs that can benefit them. PERIOD. END OF SENTENCE. END OF DISCUSSION. That is what it means to get rid of social programs, letting children suffer.

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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And yet many conservatives would rather children DIE on the street rather than give social programs that can benefit them. PERIOD. END OF SENTENCE. END OF DISCUSSION. That is what it means to get rid of social programs, letting children suffer.
    OH PLEASE TNE. Name one Conservative that wants "children dying in the streets".

    name one policy or plan we back that would result in this.

    You're such a blow-hard fearmonger.
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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    I agree that further discussion with you is futile. Your position is disgusting, despicable, and contemptible. Parents do expend money, time, and emotion on their children--but that does not make children "costs". Children are not a burden that drags the parent down. Children are not a blight upon society. CHILDREN ARE NOT A "COST".

    Period. End of Sentence. End of Discussion.
    How do you define cost?

    cost - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    Main Entry:
    1cost
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈkȯst\
    Function:
    noun
    Date:
    13th century
    1 a: the amount or equivalent paid or charged for something : price b: the outlay or expenditure (as of effort or sacrifice) made to achieve an object
    2: loss or penalty incurred especially in gaining something
    3plural : expenses incurred in litigation ; especially : those given by the law or the court to the prevailing party against the losing party
    Below are references to cost calculators that estimate the cost to raise a child in the United States.

    Trying to Conceive: How Much it Costs to Raise a Child
    Expenditures on Children by Families, 2007
    USDA Estimates of the Cost of Raising a Child: A Guide to Their Use and Interpretation.

    I think that I understand what you are saying - children are not a negative cost, they add more value to society then is expended is raising them - though from a purely monetary perspective, it seems reasonable to believe that many parents in the United States will not see a monetary return on the money invested in their children.

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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What in God's name are you babbling about?

    Give them crumbs to survive? I believe in a strong social safety net.
    A strong safety net merely perpetuates poverty. People born into a system that tells them they only survive by the "goodness" of others, tend to stagnate. People given incentive, and told "Hey go out there, make something of yourselves" have incentive to improve themselves.


    This is shown true by the failure of the war on poverty, the abject failure of communist governments and socialist states.

    Why has America been the greatest engine of prosperity? It sure as hell wasn't because of "safety nets" that people never rose above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And where the hell did I say anything about them killing themselves off otherwise? If you're referring to the "let Darwinism take care of the problem" comment, that was apdst. Not me.
    I was referring to your backing of abortion.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And yet many conservatives would rather children DIE on the street rather than give social programs that can benefit them. PERIOD. END OF SENTENCE. END OF DISCUSSION. That is what it means to get rid of social programs, letting children suffer.
    Children did not "die on the street" before social programs, nor do intelligent people--i.e., those who grasp that the welfare state is nothing more than a lie meant to oppress and demean the non-entitled few--advocate children dying anywhere.

    Intelligent people grasp the limitations of government--that while government may clumsily safeguard the rights of men, it cannot provide for men, nor for their families.

    Intelligent people grasp that to dilute the imperative for self sufficiency is to inculcate a soul-killing dependency into the individuals that comprise a society.

    Your statement is false. Your position is false. Your anger is false.

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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    OH PLEASE TNE. Name one Conservative that wants "children dying in the streets".

    name one policy or plan we back that would result in this.
    Cutting social programs that prevent poverty, while doing nothing to encourage the poor to have fewer children.
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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Cutting social programs that prevent poverty, while doing nothing to encourage the poor to have fewer children.
    Wait..

    So you think it's governments job to not only regulate how people should behave, but to support their choice to remain poor?

    I.E. "Have children, don't worry, we'll support you!"


    How do you come to the conclusion that these programs "prevent poverty?"

    I postulate they ENCOURAGE poverty, by reducing the incentive to achieve. Why work hard when you can get a check cut for you? Why bother to care for yourself when others will do it for you. IT's a disease of guilt, that is all "anti-poverty" programs ever end up being.


    Do you really believe, in a society as prosperous, and successful as ours, that spending trillions of dollars with NO CHANGE in poverty rates means we merely prevented poverty?

    Really?

    No, you have it all backwards. We ensure poverty by coddling people, we ensure mediocrity when it's rewarded.

    I'm a "sink or swim" kinda guy that realizes most people, will figure out how to swim. Safety nets should be there to prop up and teach people how to swim, not provide them with life vets to tread water all their lives.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Wait..

    So you think it's governments job to not only regulate how people should behave, but to support their choice to remain poor?

    I.E. "Have children, don't worry, we'll support you!"
    Is it the child's fault if the parent is irresponsible?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio
    How do you come to the conclusion that these programs "prevent poverty?"
    I use the term anti-poverty social programs fairly broadly.

    Public education prevents poverty by providing people with at least some education, as well as the potential to excel. Law enforcement and prisons prevent poverty by taking thugs off the streets that make businesses think twice before opening in poor neighborhoods. Universal health care will prevent poverty by ensuring that people don't go bankrupt after only one illness/accident, or die because they can't afford treatment. Unemployment insurance prevents poverty by ensuring that people don't miss their rent payment and end up on the street after being unexpectedly laid off work. Etc, etc.

    Not all anti-poverty programs involve collecting a welfare check. IMO these things qualify as well. Since the United States has one of the highest levels of poverty and the smallest social safety net in the developed world, it seems unlikely that such programs actively encourage poverty.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio
    Do you really believe, in a society as prosperous, and successful as ours, that spending trillions of dollars with NO CHANGE in poverty rates means we merely prevented poverty?
    No change compared to when?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio
    I'm a "sink or swim" kinda guy that realizes most people, will figure out how to swim. Safety nets should be there to prop up and teach people how to swim, not provide them with life vets to tread water all their lives.
    I agree. And what better way to teach people how to swim than by encouraging them to have fewer children they can't afford, instead of providing them with life vests to pay for all the associated expenses?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 07-11-09 at 03:44 AM.
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    Re: Justice Ginsburg Says She Originally Thought Roe v. Wade Was Designed to Limit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post





    There are more anti-poverty programs than the ones that you associate with black people


    We're through until you apologize for attempting to cast me as a bigot. I never once brought race into this, and I don't appreciate you attempting to spin my comments as being about any race.

    That sir, was low down dirty pool.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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