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Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

Uhm, DD... reality check. The housing bubble was caused almost exclusively by Washington mandated housing policies.

THAT is why people like you are so easy to, dismiss. you ignore the reality for political theory.

What Washington policy specifically had lenders giving arm and interest only loans to people that couldn't realistically afford the loan after the initiation date expires and the real monthly payment is due?
 
What Washington policy specifically had lenders giving arm and interest only loans to people that couldn't realistically afford the loan after the initiation date expires and the real monthly payment is due?

Uhm...

eren’t the majority of the subprime loans made by mortgage service companies not subject to the CRA?
This is true. But it is largely beside the point. A huge driver of the demand for subprime loans was the demand for CRA bonds. Banks operating under the CRA could meet their obligations by buying up CRA loans or MBS built from CRA loans. The CRA created a demand that the mortgage servicers were meeting.

What's more, many smaller mortage service companies hoped to be acquired by larger banks. Increasing their CRA lending made them more attractive take-over targets.

A study put out by the Treasury Department in 2000 found that the CRA was encouraging the mortgage servicers to provide loans to low-income borrowers, in part because the CRA loans had been so successful.

Finally, the Clinton adminstration threatened to subject the mortgage companies to the CRA if they didn't comply voluntarily. They promptly agreed to increase their CRA-type lending in order to escape the kind of public scrutiny that comes with official CRA regulated status.

If the CRA was forcing all this lax lending, why weren't bankers objecting?
Are you really in the dark about why the leaders of large public corporations wouldn't publicly object to a piece of civil rights legislation? Fine. I'll be totally open with you: this would have been career suicide and an open invitation to bias litigation and increased scrutiny from regulators. In this case, silence is misleading.

What's more, no one said the bankers hated the lax lending the CRA was requiring. Sure, some did. But those people were quickly shown the door, while the enthusiasts were promoted. The regulations themselves selected for enthusiasts for the program of lax lending.

How do you explain the fact that CRA loans historically had low levels of default. Doesn’t this mean that loan standards were not relaxed?
Actually, no. We know that lending standards were relaxed under the CRA. The fact that they had relatively low default levels was initially a surprise but it isn’t an indicator that lending standards were secretly high. There are plenty of explanations for this, including the lack of borrower ruthlessness in unsophisticated home owners and a tendency of delinquent low-income borrowers to sell the home and prepay the mortgage rather than default. Especially during a period of rising home prices, the default option was not heavily exercised.

But even during the crisis, CRA loans didn’t default at higher rates than other mortgages. CRA banks aren’t failing more than other financial institutions, CRA areas aren’t hotspots of defaults. What about that?
In part, this is evidence that the lending standards of the CRA had spread to the rest of the mortgage market.

I thought you said CRA loans caused this crisis.
Nope. It isn’t losses from CRA loans that drove the crisis (although they are disproportionately responsible for losses at some banks). Instead, the CRA required lax lending standards that spread to the rest of the mortgage market. That fueled the mortgage boom and bust.

So how and why did the CRA lax lending spread to the rest of the mortgage market?
The structure of the CRA regulations encouraged the spread. Banks that were the best at making CRA loans were allowed to grow by making acquisitions and opening new branches. This created a kind of political-financial Darwinism that reward the biggest enthusiasts for lax CRA lending standards. Of course, the most successful people under this regime were not the types who needed their arms twisted to make loose loans. They were who were predisposed to engage in loosey-goosey finance, who discovered that the CRA had made the world their oyster.

As for the “why” part of your question, the answer is a bit ironic. Banks making CRA loans initially expected that defaults would be higher due to lax lending standards. When they discovered the low-income borrowers had an unexpected propensity to pay their mortgages. After years of data poured in showing that borrowers were paying mortgages despite high LTVs, low down payments and unconventional income measures, bankers began to believe that many of the traditional measure of credit worthiness were overly conservative. Recall what I said earlier about how mortgage service providers started pursuing low-income borrowers in part because of the CRA.

What they didn’t take into account was that different types of borrowers may behave differently, and that much of the data on those lax lending mortgages was warped by increasing home prices. Wealthier, more sophisticated borrowers ruthlessly default when their mortgage goes underwater, for example. What’s more, the reversal of housing prices meant that defaults across all borrower classes increased.

Making matters worse, President Bush pushed hard for lax lending standards. He wanted to expand minority and low income home ownership far beyond what the CRA required. So he pushed even harder for the broadening of these lending standards.
Here's How The Community Reinvestment Act Led To The Housing Bubble's Lax Lending

The thousands of mortgage defaults and foreclosures in the "subprime" housing market (i.e., mortgage holders with poor credit ratings) is the direct result of thirty years of government policy that has forced banks to make bad loans to un-creditworthy borrowers. The policy in question is the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), which compels banks to make loans to low-income borrowers and in what the supporters of the Act call "communities of color" that they might not otherwise make based on purely economic criteria.

The original lobbyists for the CRA were the hardcore leftists who supported the Carter administration and were often rewarded for their support with government grants and programs like the CRA that they benefited from. These included various "neighborhood organizations," as they like to call themselves, such as "ACORN" (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now). These organizations claim that over $1 trillion in CRA loans have been made, although no one seems to know the magnitude with much certainty. A U.S. Senate Banking Committee staffer told me about ten years ago that at least $100 billion in such loans had been made in the first twenty years of the Act.

So-called "community groups" like ACORN benefit themselves from the CRA through a process that sounds like legalized extortion. The CRA is enforced by four federal government bureaucracies: the Fed, the Comptroller of the Currency, the Office of Thrift Supervision, and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation. The law is set up so that any bank merger, branch expansion, or new branch creation can be postponed or prohibited by any of these four bureaucracies if a CRA "protest" is issued by a "community group." This can cost banks great sums of money, and the "community groups" understand this perfectly well. It is their leverage. They use this leverage to get the banks to give them millions of dollars as well as promising to make a certain amount of bad loans in their communities.

A man named Bruce Marks became quite notorious during the last decade for pressuring banks to earmark literally billions of dollars to his organization, the "Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America." He once boasted to the New York Times that he had "won" loan commitments totaling $3.8 billion from Bank of America, First Union Corporation, and the Fleet Financial Group. And that is just one "community group" operating in one city – Boston.

Banks have been placed in a Catch 22 situation by the CRA: If they comply, they know they will have to suffer from more loan defaults. If they don’t comply, they face financial penalties and, worse yet, their business plans for mergers, branch expansions, etc. can be blocked by CRA protesters, which can cost a large corporation like Bank of America billions of dollars. Like most businesses, they have largely buckled under and have surrendered to their bureaucratic masters.

Consequently, banks in every community in America have been forced to hold a portfolio of bad loans, euphemistically referred to as "subprime" loans. In order to compensate themselves for the added risk of extending these loans, many lenders have increased the lending fees associated with mortgage loans. This is simply an indirect way of doing what banks always do – and what they must do to remain solvent: charging effectively higher rates of interest on riskier loans.
Obama seeks to mandate more risky, low-income loans by banks, in new financial rules

As they say: Educate thyself.
 
Yes you can, but only to a point...

You can't do it in the middle of a recession. If we had 3-4% unemployment it would be a different story.

This is nothing but a, "Look what we did for the poor folks", piece of legislation.
 
That would be true if most companies did not seek to exploit the workers for their own selfish greed. That's the biggest problem with a Capitalistic system and why the prior administration was such a failure. The prior administration believed that companies best regulate themselves. We see where that idea got us.

And, what has massive government regulation gotten us so far? It's only been six months and it's causing the economy to swell up like roadkill. Won't be long before the economy blows up like roadkill on a Louisiana blacktop in July.
 

I've read that argument before. As far as I know the CRA doesn't tell the lenders to undertake unethical and harmful practices in order to expand their lending to lower income communities. It seems what is wrong with the CRA, other then being forced to exist in the first place, is that it allowed the lenders to be as laxed and maliciously creative as possible with their lending, hence pushing subprime mortgages.

Would lenders have tapped into the lower income consumer market by persuading them with sub prime lending without the CRA? It would have been the only way to get their business.
 
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I've read that argument before. As far as I know the CRA doesn't tell the lenders to undertake unethical and harmful practices in order to expand their lending to lower income communities. It seems what is wrong with the CRA, other then being forced to exist in the first place, is that it allowed the lenders to be as laxed and maliciously creative as possible with their lending, hence pushing subprime mortgages.

No, but the government did pressure lenders to give out sub-prime loans. Ask yourself why Freddie and Fannie own over half the bad mortgages in the country.
 
Can the job market and our economy handle this increase?

No. Companies only have so much money to go around. Guess what happens if they have to pay their employers more? Can you say layoffs? This isn't complicated.

Will this increase consumer spending by giving more money into the pockets of teenagers, and poverty and borderline poverty level adults?

Hoover tried this during the Great Depression. Businesses felt that they were compelled to pay their employees more because they thought that high wages bring prosperity. Unfortunately for them it's the other way around. If you ignore Say's Law you're going to get burned.
 
IF minimum wage were to be adjusted for inflation it would be around $9.00-$10 an hour, so $7 an hour is still a huge bargain for businesses; if you can't afford to pay that then you don't need to be hiring anybody in the first place, so go away and let somebody who knows what they're doing get in the marketplace without having to compete with innumerable morons who are going to go broke anyway, even if they had free labor.
 
No, but the government did pressure lenders to give out sub-prime loans. Ask yourself why Freddie and Fannie own over half the bad mortgages in the country.

glad you asked
fannie and freddie only bought - for resale on the secondary market - what are referred to as "conforming" mortgages. those loans which did NOT conform to fannie/freddie guidelines were referred to as "subprime" mortgages
wall street saw the huge money being made by fannie/freddie, by securitizing loans for the secondary market
the demand for those investments drove the demand for mortgages, almost anything would work ... so weak, subprime loans, were being pumped out for securitization
but fannie/freddie could not - by their internal rules - underwrite those weak loans. but to not be left out of the profits made in the subprime investment bubble, fannie/freddie DID take investment postions in those securities ... they became a secondary market BUYER of sub primes while simultaneously SELLING into the secondary market those better, tho less profitable loans, which were conforming

in short, the GSEs took the money they were realizing from the sale of solid, conforming loans, to buy pools of weak sub prime, non-conforming loans, which (while performing) yielded a higher rate of return

the congress was alerted ... only it did not do anything to curb the financial abuse. fannie and freddie were gambling with the public's money:
... In September 2004, OFHEO issued an interim report that detailed serious problems relating to Fannie Mae’s accounting. Importantly, OFHEO found that Fannie Mae did not comply with GAAP for FAS 91, which deals with amortization of loan fees, premiums and discounts, and FAS 133, which covers derivatives and hedge accounting. The SEC concurred with OFHEO’s findings and ordered Fannie Mae to restate its financial statements filed with the Commission. ...
http://www.house.gov/financialservices/media/pdf/060606jbl.pdf
 
Hoover tried this during the Great Depression. Businesses felt that they were compelled to pay their employees more because they thought that high wages bring prosperity. Unfortunately for them it's the other way around. If you ignore Say's Law you're going to get burned.

Hoover did no such thing. He merely asked employers to not treat labor as a commodity, for moral reasons; they universally ignored him.
 
I'm sorry, but I've been hearing a bunch of bull**** from faux "free market" people about the pitfalls of a minimum wage for as long as I've been interested in economics and history does not bear that argument out.

Agree 100%. Entirely true, the introduction of the minimum wage in the UK by Blair's government being a case in point.

I can't actually believe the minimum wage in the US is so low. No wonder people work two and three jobs. Richest country in the world? For who? And on whose backs?
 
I can't actually believe the minimum wage in the US is so low. No wonder people work two and three jobs. Richest country in the world? For who? And on whose backs?

Indeed. They've got people who make $40K-$60K a year convinced they're 'middle class'. It's hilarious.

Oh, and don't forget that if you cut wages and do away with labor laws, people will make more money! It's all very magical, and only 'conservatives' and 'libertarians' are able to decipher these magical incantations; there's an 'invisible hand' involved somewhere, but nobody ever seems to be able to find it. I guess that's cuz it's invisible ...
 

Agree 100%. Entirely true, the introduction of the minimum wage in the UK by Blair's government being a case in point.

I can't actually believe the minimum wage in the US is so low. No wonder people work two and three jobs. Richest country in the world? For who? And on whose backs?

Sigh, should people under the age of 18 be making, what you consider, a "living wage"?
 
IF minimum wage were to be adjusted for inflation it would be around $9.00-$10 an hour, so $7 an hour is still a huge bargain for businesses; if you can't afford to pay that then you don't need to be hiring anybody in the first place, so go away and let somebody who knows what they're doing get in the marketplace without having to compete with innumerable morons who are going to go broke anyway, even if they had free labor.

What the hell are you on about? Small businesses shouldn't exist, only big ones? What kind of logic is that?

Indeed. They've got people who make $40K-$60K a year convinced they're 'middle class'. It's hilarious.

Uhhm you do realize that the median income in the U.S. is second or third in the world right?

Oh, and don't forget that if you cut wages and do away with labor laws, people will make more money! It's all very magical, and only 'conservatives' and 'libertarians' are able to decipher these magical incantations; there's an 'invisible hand' involved somewhere, but nobody ever seems to be able to find it. I guess that's cuz it's invisible ...

Is it so hard for you to see that actions have more consequences than the immediate ones? If I punched you in the face, the bruise it would leave would be far from the only result of my action.
 

Agree 100%. Entirely true, the introduction of the minimum wage in the UK by Blair's government being a case in point.

I can't actually believe the minimum wage in the US is so low. No wonder people work two and three jobs. Richest country in the world? For who? And on whose backs?

Because paying people a living wage to be a Burger flipper will hardly encourage them to become anything but. It's called unskilled labor, and it should be paid for accordingly.

If it sucks at the bottom, there is an impetus to improve your lot in life. If it's comfortable enough at the bottom, why bother? Sure some people will still want to be doctors or policemen, but how many high school kids these days just look for a job right out of high school? Alot of them, but at least they choose to work in factories or offices(where they get paid much higher than minimum wage) which requires the development of a skill. If those same kids could make a living wage being a gas station attendant, or a burger flipper, why would they want to put themselves in a situation where they had to develop a skill? Some jobs should simply need to be transient in nature. They won't be, if we have the living wage forced upon us. We don't want career gas station attendants or Dairy Queen employees.
 
I don't believe anybody should be exploited, whether they be sixteen or sixty.

So if I decided to work a job I could just as easily pass up, and can quit at any time, I'm being exploited if the people I consciously chose to work for aren't giving me exactly what I want?

And yet it's not exploiting businesses to force them to pay their laborers more than what they're worth?
 
Because paying people a living wage to be a Burger flipper will hardly encourage them to become anything but. It's called unskilled labor, and it should be paid for accordingly.

If it sucks at the bottom, there is an impetus to improve your lot in life. If it's comfortable enough at the bottom, why bother? Sure some people will still want to be doctors or policemen, but how many high school kids these days just look for a job right out of high school? Alot of them, but at least they choose to work in factories or offices(where they get paid much higher than minimum wage) which requires the development of a skill. If those same kids could make a living wage being a gas station attendant, or a burger flipper, why would they want to put themselves in a situation where they had to develop a skill? Some jobs should simply need to be transient in nature. They won't be, if we have the living wage forced upon us. We don't want career gas station attendants or Dairy Queen employees.


Nobody advocated equal wages for doctors and burger bar workers, though I don't believe the differential should be anywhere near as great as is it, nor do I condone the obscene wages of some of those in the corporate world and banking (whose greed and stupidity has landed us all in it.) Burger flippers and gas station attendants deserve a living wage and in a civilised society, shouldn't need to seek a second or third job to make ends meet. That such a situation exists in the world's largest economy is testament to the failures of your system.
 
Nobody advocated equal wages for doctors and burger bar workers, though I don't believe the differential should be anywhere near as great as is it, nor do I condone the obscene wages of some of those in the corporate world and banking (whose greed and stupidity has landed us all in it.) Burger flippers and gas station attendants deserve a living wage and in a civilised society, shouldn't need to seek a second or third job to make ends meet. That such a situation exists in the world's largest economy is testament to the failures of your system.

Protip: don't be a unskilled wage earner forever.
 
What's worse, is when you are forced to pay someone more than their labor is worth. Thats exploitation.

What their labour is worth is subjective. If you don't agree with the minimum limit set by the state, you're not forced to be an employer.
 
Nobody advocated equal wages for doctors and burger bar workers, though I don't believe the differential should be anywhere near as great as is it, nor do I condone the obscene wages of some of those in the corporate world and banking (whose greed and stupidity has landed us all in it.) Burger flippers and gas station attendants deserve a living wage and in a civilised society, shouldn't need to seek a second or third job to make ends meet. That such a situation exists in the world's largest economy is testament to the failures of your system.

You know what's worse than having two or more jobs? Having no job at all. The higher the minimum wage, the more cases of that there are.
 
So if I decided to work a job I could just as easily pass up, and can quit at any time, I'm being exploited if the people I consciously chose to work for aren't giving me exactly what I want?

And yet it's not exploiting businesses to force them to pay their laborers more than what they're worth?


Many people are forced into jobs paying a pittance because there is nothing else available to them and they don't have the means to up sticks and move location. Those jobs also need to be done by somebody since they are vital to society. That's why a decent minimum wage is an esssential of a civilised society.
 
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