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Thread: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

  1. #81
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    Urethra Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You're not exactly getting this are you, I can run at maximum efficiency and survive, but am not taking a cut in my profits for a person to be employed as a screwdriver operator, so the person remains unemployed and someone else has to do more work. I could lighten that person's burden but it's my idea, my ass on the line, and mine to fail alone, so I am so sorry that maybe I want some return on that, as is my right in a capitalist economy.
    The choice is, as you put it, that either you take somebody on at a decent wage and your failing business gets into even more trouble, or somebody remains unemployed. A system in failure.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    That you are seeing this is speaking volumes about you, businesses have to see a return that is worth the prices paid, anything less is viable, but not preferable. Again, overly emotional crap with no facts to back it up. It's not system failure, it's personal failure, which the system accounts for, so it works, if you want to better your situation, if you are content to live at low wages and not try harder, your problem.......ALONE. It's not capitalism, try again, it's a socialist/capitalist hybrid and the capitalist part isn't what is failing. Your economic ignorance is showing, at what part of this economy was the market left alone, TARP 1, the Stimulus package, talk of a third spending bill, or FANNIE MAE/FREDDY MAC?
    Very few people choose to work for low wages. It is often all that is available to them. There is no socialist/capitalist hybrid in your country. Most United Statesians wouldn't recognise socialism if it slapped them in the face. For years people have been told there's no money for health care, no money to lift people out of poverty, and then woopy-doo, the money's suddenly there to prop up banks which floundered because of greed, lack of control and a system which is essentially flawed.
    "C'est le dernier qui a parlé qui a raison"
    Amina.

  2. #82
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    The choice is, as you put it, that either you take somebody on at a decent wage and your failing business gets into even more trouble, or somebody remains unemployed. A system in failure.
    Wow, just wow. You really don't get it do you, or you are trying to be insulting, either way, you aren't looking any better for this argument. Let me slow it down for you, extra expenses aren't in a businesses best interest when they aren't at their correct values, so they must be shed, or else a business will underperform. Let me simplify it for you further, I am not paying more than someone is worth, because that would be a stupid decision, if you think it's that easy, go start your own business, since you think you are an economic guru of some sort.




    Very few people choose to work for low wages. It is often all that is available to them. There is no socialist/capitalist hybrid in your country. Most United Statesians wouldn't recognise socialism if it slapped them in the face. For years people have been told there's no money for health care, no money to lift people out of poverty, and then woopy-doo, the money's suddenly there to prop up banks which floundered because of greed, lack of control and a system which is essentially flawed.
    I bolded where I stopped reading, you choose your desired wages when the contract is signed, the end.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  3. #83
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post




    I bolded where I stopped reading, you choose your desired wages when the contract is signed, the end.

    You live in a community where the only employer of unskilled labour is some large supermarket. You cannot drive to a neighbouring community for work because you cannot afford a car. Public transport is quasi-inexistant. You can't move town because you either can't afford it or you have local commitments (sick relatives, whatever). Of course you sign a contract for a low wage because the other option is unemployment and even worse poverty. That doesn't make the situation just.

    Admitting that you haven't read posts you're responding to doesn't exactly up your credibility hon.
    "C'est le dernier qui a parlé qui a raison"
    Amina.

  4. #84
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    1. Children are our future. Civilized societies recognise this and give a helping hand to those who have children, their upkeep being very expensive indeed. It's called solidarity. I am childless by choice and I happily pay my taxes towards the child allowances my reproducing fellow citizens receive.
    Some children, not all.
    Consider that all the things that have been done to alleviate poverty haven't reduced the amount of poor or the future criminal behavior of their children.

    With that said poverty is subjective and you can't end poverty with a minimum wage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    2. The alternative to inadequate pay for many is unemployment and even worse poverty.
    Unemployment by choice not for the lack of jobs.
    If you choose not to work you can only play yourself for being unemployed and poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    3. I have the greatest respect for one of the cleaners where I work. She is about 50 and has always been a cleaner. She takes great pride in her work and does it very well, always with a smile. She didn't want ot need to study to become an astro-physicist. She does deserve enough money to live on. Thankfully she does her thankless job because somebody has to and we'd be stuffed if we couldn't fill her post.
    She is getting paid for her cleaning, that is all the thanks she needs unless your just trying to be polite.
    She deserves the amount of money that her and her employer agreed upon.
    If she doesn't study to become anything more than a cleaner she will suffer the consequences of her apathy.

    Jobs like hers will eventually be eliminated by automation and technological development.
    That is what I'm studying for, to eliminate inefficient labor and replace it with efficient automation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    4. But not to obscene differences. Keep the differential reasonable.
    Who decides what is obscene?
    Labor relies on supply and demand as everything else does.

    If you cap pay for people in high demand fields they will no longer do those things and instead do less for the same amount, in effect you'll create a shortage for those fields.

    A good example of this is UHC and doctors.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #85
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    You live in a community where the only employer of unskilled labour is some large supermarket. n.
    Ok in this fanciful scenario lets force the sputtering supermarket to pay double wages.

    A. They go broke
    B. Now everyone in the area is on the government cheeseline.


    Gee thanks socialism. You really helped.
    Thank you

  6. #86
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    You live in a community where the only employer of unskilled labour is some large supermarket. You cannot drive to a neighbouring community for work because you cannot afford a car. Public transport is quasi-inexistant. You can't move town because you either can't afford it or you have local commitments (sick relatives, whatever). Of course you sign a contract for a low wage because the other option is unemployment and even worse poverty. That doesn't make the situation just.

    Admitting that you haven't read posts you're responding to doesn't exactly up your credibility hon.
    What's to read, it started with an uncredible opinion, so I figured it wasn't worth my time and full of emotional "what ifs" much like the above. Again, how is it my problem.......as the risk taker of the business.......to provide YOU with an arbitrary value based, MANDATED, minimum that your labor is NOT worth.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Don't know how you get to this particular conclusion. Capitalism is based on economic law, supply and demand, this does not exclude labor. When government mandates labors minimal value by social law it essentially invalidates the advantages of free market capitalism by assigning a value that is not in reality what some labor is worth.
    Real world example here: I am contemplating starting a drum company in my home state and would love to make a superior product at a less than custom cost, and would love to have a team of people to drill-paint-and assemble the sets, assembling of the sets is the easist part, employee takes a screwdriver, puts the lug assembly into it's pre-drilled place, and screws it in. Is THAT worth 7/hr? No, it isn't as I can do about 10-20 myself without paying anything extra, sorry high school kid who wanted a fun job, I don't need you for what your value is assessed at, At worst I'll have a paint department and assign full assemblage duties to the driller, he will get less sets built in an hour by far, but, I only have to pay one employee past minimum wage and I am still saving money from an overpaid screwdriver jockey.
    Are you trying to build musical drums or storage drums?
    (A bit off topic but just curious.)
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #88
    Stigmatized! End R Word! Kali's Avatar
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    It is a start! Everyone in this country that holds a job should be paid a living wage and the min. wage needs to be like $10 an hour
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  9. #89
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Some children, not all.
    Consider that all the things that have been done to alleviate poverty haven't reduced the amount of poor or the future criminal behavior of their children.

    With that said poverty is subjective and you can't end poverty with a minimum wage.

    .
    Poverty is not subjective. It has sociolgical definitions (absolute and relative - look it up in any basic 14 year old's sociology text book). The poverty line is in many countries decided by certain economic measures.

    Many of the measures you trash indeed have lifted people out of poverty. For example, the introduction of the minimum wage in the UK: Minimum wage puts Britain on top to combat worker poverty | Money | The Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Unemployment by choice not for the lack of jobs.
    If you choose not to work you can only play yourself for being unemployed and poor. .
    Most unemplyed don't choose unemployment. Many low paid workers would be better off on state benefits yet they choose to work.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    She is getting paid for her cleaning, that is all the thanks she needs unless your just trying to be polite.
    She deserves the amount of money that her and her employer agreed upon.
    If she doesn't study to become anything more than a cleaner she will suffer the consequences of her apathy..
    If you live in a country where further education isn't free and you're on a poverty wage,, if you have children to bring up, a sick relative to care for, or if you're simply not too bright academically, then not studying in later life is hardly "apathy" - your comment is trite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Jobs like hers will eventually be eliminated by automation and technological development.
    That is what I'm studying for, to eliminate inefficient labor and replace it with efficient automation...
    And when the robot malfunctions, or can't clean around the hospital bed because there's a cardiac arrest going on, somebody like her will be called in to do the job she was better at anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Who decides what is obscene? ...
    That is subjective
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Labor relies on supply and demand as everything else does. ...
    It does in your capitalist system, hence its failure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you cap pay for people in high demand fields they will no longer do those things and instead do less for the same amount, in effect you'll create a shortage for those fields.

    A good example of this is UHC and doctors.
    No that's not a good example. The two countries which consistenly top WHO league tables for their health systems and health care outcomes are two countries with socialised medicine and universal health care (France and Sweden). You happen to be talking to a doctor in a socialised medical system, who like many of her colleagues, doesn't flee to the US or to private practice for mega bucks because she believes in the state system, finds it to be excellent and feels adequately remunerated for what she does. Bad example.
    "C'est le dernier qui a parlé qui a raison"
    Amina.

  10. #90
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Are you trying to build musical drums or storage drums?
    (A bit off topic but just curious.)
    Nice, hadn't thought of that, the musical kind.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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