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Thread: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I've read that argument before. As far as I know the CRA doesn't tell the lenders to undertake unethical and harmful practices in order to expand their lending to lower income communities. It seems what is wrong with the CRA, other then being forced to exist in the first place, is that it allowed the lenders to be as laxed and maliciously creative as possible with their lending, hence pushing subprime mortgages.
    No, but the government did pressure lenders to give out sub-prime loans. Ask yourself why Freddie and Fannie own over half the bad mortgages in the country.
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Can the job market and our economy handle this increase?
    No. Companies only have so much money to go around. Guess what happens if they have to pay their employers more? Can you say layoffs? This isn't complicated.

    Will this increase consumer spending by giving more money into the pockets of teenagers, and poverty and borderline poverty level adults?
    Hoover tried this during the Great Depression. Businesses felt that they were compelled to pay their employees more because they thought that high wages bring prosperity. Unfortunately for them it's the other way around. If you ignore Say's Law you're going to get burned.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    IF minimum wage were to be adjusted for inflation it would be around $9.00-$10 an hour, so $7 an hour is still a huge bargain for businesses; if you can't afford to pay that then you don't need to be hiring anybody in the first place, so go away and let somebody who knows what they're doing get in the marketplace without having to compete with innumerable morons who are going to go broke anyway, even if they had free labor.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No, but the government did pressure lenders to give out sub-prime loans. Ask yourself why Freddie and Fannie own over half the bad mortgages in the country.
    glad you asked
    fannie and freddie only bought - for resale on the secondary market - what are referred to as "conforming" mortgages. those loans which did NOT conform to fannie/freddie guidelines were referred to as "subprime" mortgages
    wall street saw the huge money being made by fannie/freddie, by securitizing loans for the secondary market
    the demand for those investments drove the demand for mortgages, almost anything would work ... so weak, subprime loans, were being pumped out for securitization
    but fannie/freddie could not - by their internal rules - underwrite those weak loans. but to not be left out of the profits made in the subprime investment bubble, fannie/freddie DID take investment postions in those securities ... they became a secondary market BUYER of sub primes while simultaneously SELLING into the secondary market those better, tho less profitable loans, which were conforming

    in short, the GSEs took the money they were realizing from the sale of solid, conforming loans, to buy pools of weak sub prime, non-conforming loans, which (while performing) yielded a higher rate of return

    the congress was alerted ... only it did not do anything to curb the financial abuse. fannie and freddie were gambling with the public's money:
    ... In September 2004, OFHEO issued an interim report that detailed serious problems relating to Fannie Mae’s accounting. Importantly, OFHEO found that Fannie Mae did not comply with GAAP for FAS 91, which deals with amortization of loan fees, premiums and discounts, and FAS 133, which covers derivatives and hedge accounting. The SEC concurred with OFHEO’s findings and ordered Fannie Mae to restate its financial statements filed with the Commission. ...
    http://www.house.gov/financialservic.../060606jbl.pdf

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Hoover tried this during the Great Depression. Businesses felt that they were compelled to pay their employees more because they thought that high wages bring prosperity. Unfortunately for them it's the other way around. If you ignore Say's Law you're going to get burned.
    Hoover did no such thing. He merely asked employers to not treat labor as a commodity, for moral reasons; they universally ignored him.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturmrabe View Post
    I'm sorry, but I've been hearing a bunch of bull**** from faux "free market" people about the pitfalls of a minimum wage for as long as I've been interested in economics and history does not bear that argument out.
    Agree 100%. Entirely true, the introduction of the minimum wage in the UK by Blair's government being a case in point.

    I can't actually believe the minimum wage in the US is so low. No wonder people work two and three jobs. Richest country in the world? For who? And on whose backs?
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    I can't actually believe the minimum wage in the US is so low. No wonder people work two and three jobs. Richest country in the world? For who? And on whose backs?
    Indeed. They've got people who make $40K-$60K a year convinced they're 'middle class'. It's hilarious.

    Oh, and don't forget that if you cut wages and do away with labor laws, people will make more money! It's all very magical, and only 'conservatives' and 'libertarians' are able to decipher these magical incantations; there's an 'invisible hand' involved somewhere, but nobody ever seems to be able to find it. I guess that's cuz it's invisible ...

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Agree 100%. Entirely true, the introduction of the minimum wage in the UK by Blair's government being a case in point.

    I can't actually believe the minimum wage in the US is so low. No wonder people work two and three jobs. Richest country in the world? For who? And on whose backs?
    Sigh, should people under the age of 18 be making, what you consider, a "living wage"?
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Picaro View Post
    IF minimum wage were to be adjusted for inflation it would be around $9.00-$10 an hour, so $7 an hour is still a huge bargain for businesses; if you can't afford to pay that then you don't need to be hiring anybody in the first place, so go away and let somebody who knows what they're doing get in the marketplace without having to compete with innumerable morons who are going to go broke anyway, even if they had free labor.
    What the hell are you on about? Small businesses shouldn't exist, only big ones? What kind of logic is that?

    Indeed. They've got people who make $40K-$60K a year convinced they're 'middle class'. It's hilarious.
    Uhhm you do realize that the median income in the U.S. is second or third in the world right?

    Oh, and don't forget that if you cut wages and do away with labor laws, people will make more money! It's all very magical, and only 'conservatives' and 'libertarians' are able to decipher these magical incantations; there's an 'invisible hand' involved somewhere, but nobody ever seems to be able to find it. I guess that's cuz it's invisible ...
    Is it so hard for you to see that actions have more consequences than the immediate ones? If I punched you in the face, the bruise it would leave would be far from the only result of my action.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Agree 100%. Entirely true, the introduction of the minimum wage in the UK by Blair's government being a case in point.

    I can't actually believe the minimum wage in the US is so low. No wonder people work two and three jobs. Richest country in the world? For who? And on whose backs?
    Because paying people a living wage to be a Burger flipper will hardly encourage them to become anything but. It's called unskilled labor, and it should be paid for accordingly.

    If it sucks at the bottom, there is an impetus to improve your lot in life. If it's comfortable enough at the bottom, why bother? Sure some people will still want to be doctors or policemen, but how many high school kids these days just look for a job right out of high school? Alot of them, but at least they choose to work in factories or offices(where they get paid much higher than minimum wage) which requires the development of a skill. If those same kids could make a living wage being a gas station attendant, or a burger flipper, why would they want to put themselves in a situation where they had to develop a skill? Some jobs should simply need to be transient in nature. They won't be, if we have the living wage forced upon us. We don't want career gas station attendants or Dairy Queen employees.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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