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Thread: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

  1. #191
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Eh, not really, consumers drive markets, they contribute to the economy, when values are artificially inflated, whether it's government subsidies, fraud, or even the monetary system itself(I'm not a fan of the current backing, would rather a hard standard like gold or commodities).
    The market hits the reset button every once in a while and we get a reality check.
    Of course we need consumers, but we want consumers to purchase only those things that they want to purchase. If there is government subsidization, then the economy is not meeting the needs of the people. There is no perfect measure of quality of life, so this is kind of hard for some people to understand.

    A real economy would produce the things that people want, people would buy only as much as they want and would either invest or save the rest. You would have growth with technological innovations or through hard work (Say's Law: production creates its own demand). That way, we would only grow with production, and we would have no recessions or bubbles. We would have steady growth.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #192
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Of course we need consumers, but we want consumers to purchase only those things that they want to purchase. If there is government subsidization, then the economy is not meeting the needs of the people. There is no perfect measure of quality of life, so this is kind of hard for some people to understand.

    A real economy would produce the things that people want, people would buy only as much as they want and would either invest or save the rest. You would have growth with technological innovations or through hard work (Say's Law: production creates its own demand). That way, we would only grow with production, and we would have no recessions or bubbles. We would have steady growth.
    Completely agree here. I may have misread the point earlier.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  3. #193
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    Not double wages, decent wages.
    Most supermarkets can afford it. Look at their profits.
    You have been fooled into thinking low wages are essential to the functioning of capitalism. If that is true, then the system has failed.
    Several supermarkets in my area have closed permanently.
    Evidently they were paying too much.


    You are not being very specific at all.

    Is 3$ enough? 6$?, 12$, 20$?

    Without hard numbers your argument has failed.
    Thank you

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Is 3$ enough? 6$?, 12$, 20$?

    Without hard numbers your argument has failed.
    Depends on the area. I am all for having a min wage, but not by the federal government the way it is now.

    Unless the federal government is going to go in and look at all 50 states and decide appropriately the min wage value (which we know they won't), it should be up to the states to decide that.

    I can understand the federal government saying you will have a min wage, but then drop it there and leave it to the states to decide the amount.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    And of course partial governmental (not collective) ownership (and a lack of direct management so much as overarching partial control) of one specific company in one specific industry that forms a mere component of the means of production and distribution as a whole doesn't equal "socialism." Why is this so ****!ng difficult?
    Yes, why is it so difficult for you to accept that socialism is the most evil philosophy and religion the world has ever seen? Other religions are honest when they openly sacrifice their virgins to the volcanos, misguided, but honest enough to publicly throw her into the bubbling lava or nail them to the tree. Socialism lies about everything, so even nice little virgins like you sacrifice your life to the Altar of Deceit without flinching.

    Stealing is the essence of socialism. Stealing ONE company is prelude to stealing another one....let's call the next one....the Entire US Health Care Industry.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I won't indulge the two of you in perpetuating this derailment of a thread about the minimum wage; it's apparent enough that there's been no satisfactory response to my arguments. However, you most certainly have been rebutted nonetheless right here.
    We're not de-railing the thread.

    Minimum wage is a tool of the goonions to raise their own overpriced labor wage scales, and minimum wage has absolutely nothing to do with increasing the take home pay of the useless fool who's trying to live on it because he's too stupid to learn something useful.

    Socialism is the politics of satisfying the wants of that useless fool because people who have skills to sell don't want to be robbed by the useless.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Depends on the area. I am all for having a min wage, but not by the federal government the way it is now.

    Unless the federal government is going to go in and look at all 50 states and decide appropriately the min wage value (which we know they won't), it should be up to the states to decide that.

    I can understand the federal government saying you will have a min wage, but then drop it there and leave it to the states to decide the amount.
    One, an agency already exists to determine what the appropriate minimum wage for a job is. It's called the free-market. If an employer wants to pay a burger-flipper two bucks an hour, and can find a burger flipper who will do the job for two bucks an hour, that's a fair wage for that job.



    Two, there's no Constitutional authority for the Federal government to interfere in wage/employment issues in the states.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    One, an agency already exists to determine what the appropriate minimum wage for a job is. It's called the free-market.
    You mean that same free-market that had no problem with child labor? The same free-market that decided blacks couldn't work "intellgient" jobs? The same free-market that if didn't have to would pay slave wages? Yeah, that free-market.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    You mean that same free-market that had no problem with child labor?
    Ah, the old chimera of child labor.

    We're discussing minimum wage, which is another example of a law implemented by unions to goose up their wages without producing more.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The same free-market that decided blacks couldn't work "intellgient" jobs?
    No, that wasn't a free market, that was a Democrat implemented constrained market.

    The free market says the employer makes those decisions, and since it's his business if he doesn't want to hire the best person for a job, he doesn't have to.

    You have a problem with people excercising their freedoms?

    Of course you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The same free-market that if didn't have to would pay slave wages?
    Slaves aren't paid wages.

    Amazing how easy it is for people to program your verbal processes since you don't waste anytime figuring out what the code words and approved phrases they feed you mean.

    If someone doesn't want to wash dishes for two bucks an hour, they do have the freedom to look elsewhere for work.

    For some strange reason, most fast food joints pay more than the minimum wage.

    Since you insist the minimum wage is essential, explain why jobs with absolutly zero skill requirements will pay more than the legally mandated minimum wage.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Yeah, that free-market.
    Yeah, that free market.

    Freedom, don't give it up without a fight.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by galenrox View Post
    Well tell me, if someone said "Hey, I have this really nice car here, I'll sell it to you for 50 cents", you wouldn't buy it? If you wouldn't buy it, why not? Do you presume yourself to be in a better position than the owner to make a decision as to what's in his/her best interest? And if you would buy it, wouldn't that be exploitative?

    And tell me, what should kids starving in Ethiopia do? Just starve quietly because the moral complexity of using something a starving kid made makes you feel icky? I remember when I was in Nicaragua the subsistence farmers were all jealous of the sweatshop workers because relatively 75 cents an hour was more than the farmers made. Can it really be considered moral for rich people to constrain what poor people do to make themselves a living just so the rich people can feel good about themselves?
    Outstanding post, although I'm afraid that conveying this point is probably futile.

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