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Thread: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

  1. #131
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Increasing* the minimum wage is not an action intended to improve the lot of those who receive said wage(though of course more money in their pockets is more money in their pockets).
    The intent is almost always to aggrandize oneself politically with little risk.

    IOW average politician pushing this=

    "I voted to have those who pay you... pay you more"

    Really hard that...
    About as hard as them voting themselves pay raises.
    Last edited by Triad; 07-12-09 at 03:14 AM.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Wages have been raising steadily, what are you talking about? And profits go toward investing in the means of production. Population in this world is growing you know.
    There is some truth to that.

    Even though the real medium wages of the rich have increased in America, since the 80s or so, the medium wages for the middle and lower classes have remained stagnant or have decreased.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with that because of the increases in efficency and increased wages in the third world, but you just can't say that all wages have been raising steadily.

    Since increases in tecnollogy give people better products to buy with the same wages, there is still a semi-steady increase in standard of living. and that is what matters.

  3. #133
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Only when referring to the textbook models. You'll notice that I've cited Dickens et al. and Card and Krueger, which should indicate that the appropriate response is corresponding citation of contrary empirical research, if there are any sound examples of it. And I am desperate for rightists to show their mettle here. I'd even accept the inanities of Walter Block.
    Card and Krueger was a stupid study. It's another example of the futility of economic research.

    Critics, however, argue that their research was flawed.[43] Subsequent attempts to verify the claims requested payroll cards from employers to verify employment, and found that the minimum wage increases were followed by decreases in employment. On the other hand, an assessment of data collected and analyzed by David Neumark and William Wascher did not initially contradict the Card/Krueger results,[44] but in a later edited version they found that the same general sample set did increase unemployment. The 18.8% wage hike resulted in "[statistically] insignificant—although almost always negative" employment effects.
    It always went down, though always statistically insignificant IN THIS ONE STUDY!

    In 1995, the Republican Staff of the Joint Economic Committee of the United States Congress published a study critical of Card and Krueger's work. They note that it conflicts with other studies done on minimum wage laws within the United States over the past 50 years.[51] According to the JEC analysis, minimum wage laws have been shown to cause large amounts of unemployment, especially among low-income, unskilled, black, and teenaged populations, as well as cause a host of other mal-effects, such as higher turnover, less training, and fewer fringe benefits.

    According to economists Donald Deere (Texas A&M), Kevin Murphy (University of Chicago), and Finis Weltch (Texas A&M), Card and Krueger's conclusions are contradicted by "common sense and past research". They conclude that:[52]

    Each of the four studies examines a different piece of the minimum wage/employment relationship. Three of them consider a single state, and two of them look at only a handful of firms in one industry. From these isolated findings Card and Krueger paint a big picture wherein increased minimum wages do not decrease, and may increase, employment. Our view is that there is something wrong with this picture. Artificial increases in the price of unskilled laborers inevitably lead to their reduced employment; the conventional wisdom remains intact.

    Nobel laureate James M. Buchanan responded to the Card and Krueger study in the Wall Street Journal, arguing:[53]

    ...no self-respecting economist would claim that increases in the minimum wage increase employment. Such a claim, if seriously advanced, becomes equivalent to a denial that there is even minimum scientific content in economics, and that, in consequence, economists can do nothing but write as advocates for ideological interests. Fortunately, only a handful of economists are willing to throw over the teaching of two centuries; we have not yet become a bevy of camp-following whores.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    There is some truth to that.

    Even though the real medium wages of the rich have increased in America, since the 80s or so, the medium wages for the middle and lower classes have remained stagnant or have decreased.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with that because of the increases in efficency and increased wages in the third world, but you just can't say that all wages have been raising steadily.

    Since increases in tecnollogy give people better products to buy with the same wages, there is still a semi-steady increase in standard of living. and that is what matters.
    We haven't had anything close to capitalism since before Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    We haven't had anything close to capitalism since before Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt.
    True. Freedome isn't always good for the economy. (but thats another issue)

    But after the US economy became free-er after Reagan, the medium wages of the middle and poor have stagnated. When before this period but after TR, those wages did increase more steadily.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    higher-minimum-wage-coming-soon.html: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

    24 of 50 states will be affected with the most extreme case being Kansas going from a current minimum wage of $2.65 to $7.25 on Jan 1, 2010.


    Can the job market and our economy handle this increase? Will this increase consumer spending by giving more money into the pockets of teenagers, and poverty and borderline poverty level adults?
    -
    WHAT? Kansas is now paying $2.65 minimum wage?????
    That is a disgrace to human beings!!!
    Kansas politicans should be sent to the nearest sewer treatment plant and givin the choice of eating the sewage or food that 'Comes from China'.
    They are one of the same.
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    [QUOTE=Urethra Franklin;1058130941]Only superpower? China is overtaking you.
    Imperialist superpower with years of arrogance in foreign policy behind it. Great achievement!

    World's largest economy, with how many in poverty? How many of your citizens have no jobs and no health coverage? Yet you've got the means to lift these people out of poverty. It's your system that doesn't work.[/QUOT


    So you are telling me China's system works better than ours. And what great achievements have your country been responsible for latley. The reason we have poverty and people with out healtcare is because of the choices those people make in thier lives not because of faults in the system. It shouldnt be up to those that work hard and make good decisions to pay for those that dont.

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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    That would be true if most companies did not seek to exploit the workers for their own selfish greed. That's the biggest problem with a Capitalistic system and why the prior administration was such a failure. The prior administration believed that companies best regulate themselves. We see where that idea got us.
    The biggest problem with capitalism is greed? No, the biggest problem with human nature is greed; can't change human nature, no matter how much you "hope" for "change". As for the biggest problem with capitalism...it's that dopes like you don't understand it...

  9. #139
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by nerv14 View Post
    True. Freedome isn't always good for the economy. (but thats another issue)
    Freedom is the best thing for an economy, when you limit options you take the best mechanism for economic growth out, I am not talking about options as far as product A or B, but choice as to what some idiot in Washington decides you may or may not have, or how it will be provided to you in explicit detail, the former restricts segments of the economy by sending them to the black market and the latter increases price, which pushes availablilty out of lower earners reach. 1st law of economics, supply and demand are co-dependent upon each other and they exist because of each other. 2nd law is that human nature is to acquire and use based on need and want, and will satisfy both to the best of ability.

    But after the US economy became free-er after Reagan, the medium wages of the middle and poor have stagnated. When before this period but after TR, those wages did increase more steadily.
    This is false, the MW was raised under Clinton, and also again under the final Bush years, it is not that wages are stagnating, it's that multiple factors of inflation and devaluation are making those wages worth less, minimum wage needing an increase is partially because it exists but mainly it is a symptom of decades of poor money policy catching up to us.



    Even though the real medium wages of the rich have increased in America, since the 80s or so, the medium wages for the middle and lower classes have remained stagnant or have decreased.
    I believe you are younger than many on the forum, so I'll take it easy on you. It isn't that the wealthy are enjoying a wage increase, more or less they have investments paying off and many have stock options and likewise pay themselves little in actual wages to minimize tax liabilities. The fact is that the market is bringing them up, not the system or some game. And again, middle class and lower class pay has not stagnated, their buying power is lessened by bad money policy allowing the value of the dollar to slip, there is also a ton of hidden tax effects from payroll taxes to unmentioned government taxes, there is a full scale assault, but it isn't capitalism that is doing this.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with that because of the increases in efficency and increased wages in the third world, but you just can't say that all wages have been raising steadily.
    See above
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    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Fact Minimum wages have never been sufficient to raise a family out of poverty, if only one member of the family works.

    Congress does not raise the minimum wage to keep up with inflation. The period 1997-2007, is the longest period during which the minimum wage has not been adjusted. The minimum wage increases in three $0.70 increments--to $5.85 in 2007, $6.55 in mid 2008, and to $7.25 in mid 2009. The real values after 2007 are projected for future decline in purchasing power.

    A review of studies on the effects of raising the minimum wage shows clearly that it has a negative effect on jobless rates. And or that it stifles some expansion in the job market, but a review of those most effected are those who fall below the poverty line to begin with. It either helps them come closer to meeting their personal and family needs or pushes them deeper into poverty and on to welfare rolls.
    The major effects will be in states where current wages are so low it pays better not to work and a higher wage could change that view in some who have given up looking for work. It is also possible that companies looking to move from a state like California to one with a lower minimum as a cost cutting measure might well rethink those moves because it's no longer that much of a savings to do so.
    Any one living on a fixed income can tell you that every penny increase helps when you look at the cost of living and how it has shot up in the last couple of years and that promises to get get much worse under Obama's Cap and Tax plan as he promised, along with his Careless Health Plan.
    What all this means is that it's a major Catch 22 type situation depending on which side of the economic fence you currently reside on. It might help, it could hurt and when all the goofy legislation being considered is factored in it becomes a whole big wait and see what happens next time for many of us.

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