Page 12 of 21 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 203

Thread: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

  1. #111
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    No, you're not. If you were, you'd perhaps be considering the studies that I cited instead of basing your comments on preconceived ideological stereotypes.
    I certainly am.

    Raising minimum wage reduces jobs.
    Plenty of stuff out there that confirms my statement.
    You know this already though.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  2. #112
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Between Hollywood and Compton.
    Last Seen
    11-25-09 @ 12:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,497

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    'Fraid so, you're quoting it verbatim, including the terminology, and the long since historically false models. And the fact that you are a socialist means you have at some point embraced some form of Keynsian economics as that is the cornerstone economic philosophy of such. Care to refute? Please, Keynes forgot the basic tenets of economics in favor of an overly mathematical approach and central planning, he entrusted pure numbers to outweigh the dynamics of supply and demand relationships, that isn't a capitalist model, which can shift easily to adjust for changes in demand or within the supply chain, Keynesian theory and socialism cannot.


    So now Keynesianism is "socialist" in nature? Keynesianism is based on the maintenance of capitalism; if you can provide any element of JMK's work that espouses the public ownership and management of the means of production, I suppose I'll concede the point. Then again, considering that most laissez-faire utopians incorrectly refer to any and all forms of government intervention in economic matters as "Keynesian" in nature (such as the New Deal, for example), I don't believe that most would have sufficient knowledge of the tenets to identify any significant portion of its actual nature.

  3. #113
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Between Hollywood and Compton.
    Last Seen
    11-25-09 @ 12:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,497

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I certainly am.

    Raising minimum wage reduces jobs.
    Only when referring to the textbook models. You'll notice that I've cited Dickens et al. and Card and Krueger, which should indicate that the appropriate response is corresponding citation of contrary empirical research, if there are any sound examples of it. And I am desperate for rightists to show their mettle here. I'd even accept the inanities of Walter Block.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Plenty of stuff out there that confirms my statement.
    You know this already though.
    I'm afraid I don't. I'm aware of the fact that the empirical literature on the minimum wage is somewhat mixed, but I know of no broad consensus that the minimum wage necessarily reduces employment or that the labor market is even sufficiently homogenous for that to be anywhere near true.

  4. #114
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Only when referring to the textbook models. You'll notice that I've cited Dickens et al. and Card and Krueger, which should indicate that the appropriate response is corresponding citation of contrary empirical research, if there are any sound examples of it. And I am desperate for rightists to show their mettle here. I'd even accept the inanities of Walter Block.
    Rightist is a poor choice of labels for me.

    My personal preference in balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    I'm afraid I don't. I'm aware of the fact that the empirical literature on the minimum wage is somewhat mixed, but I know of no broad consensus that the minimum wage necessarily reduces employment or that the labor market is even sufficiently homogenous for that to be anywhere near true.
    "Subsequent research, based on the effects of 1990-91 and 1996-97 minimum wage increases, continues to confirm this estimate. A study of the 27 percent increase in 1990-91 by economists Donald Deere, Kevin Murphy and Finis Welch, published in the American Economic Review (May 1995), found that this action reduced employment for all teen-agers by 7.3 percent and for black teen-agers by 10 percent. A study of the 1996-97 increase by economists Richard Burkhauser, Couch and David Wittenburg found a decline in employment of 2 percent to 6 percent for each 10 percent increase in the minimum wage.

    In a study published by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, Kenneth Couch translated these conclusions into raw numbers.

    * At the low end of the range, at least 90,000 teen-age jobs were lost in 1996 and another 63,000 jobs were lost in 1997.
    * At the high end, job losses may have equaled 268,000 in 1996 and 189,000 in 1997.
    * Couch estimates that a $1 rise in the minimum wage will further reduce teen-age employment by at least 145,000 and possibly as many as 436,000 jobs.
    "

    Minimum Wage Teen-age Job*Killer - Brief Analysis #292
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #115
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post


    So now Keynesianism is "socialist" in nature? Keynesianism is based on the maintenance of capitalism;
    Keynesian Economics: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty
    Keynesians’ belief in aggressive government action to stabilize the economy is based on value judgments and on the beliefs that (a) macroeconomic fluctuations significantly reduce economic well-being and (b) the government is knowledgeable and capable enough to improve on the free market.
    You were saying? Government intervention is socialism, maybe not to your liking, but it is socialism just the same.
    5. Many, but not all, Keynesians advocate activist stabilization policy to reduce the amplitude of the business cycle, which they rank among the most important of all economic problems. Here, however, even some conservative Keynesians part company by doubting either the efficacy of stabilization policy or the wisdom of attempting it.
    [/QUOTE] Direct government intervention? That would also include up to owning the means of production in the worst cases, such as the government taking over around 60% of a United States auto company perhaps?

    if you can provide any element of JMK's work that espouses the public ownership and management of the means of production, I suppose I'll concede the point.
    See above.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 07-12-09 at 12:45 AM.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  6. #116
    Professor
    Shadow Serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Last Seen
    07-18-14 @ 07:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,460

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Urethra Franklin View Post
    1. Children are our future. Civilized societies recognise this and give a helping hand to those who have children, their upkeep being very expensive indeed. It's called solidarity. I am childless by choice and I happily pay my taxes towards the child allowances my reproducing fellow citizens receive.

    2. The alternative to inadequate pay for many is unemployment and even worse poverty.

    3. I have the greatest respect for one of the cleaners where I work. She is about 50 and has always been a cleaner. She takes great pride in her work and does it very well, always with a smile. She didn't want ot need to study to become an astro-physicist. She does deserve enough money to live on. Thankfully she does her thankless job because somebody has to and we'd be stuffed if we couldn't fill her post.

    4. But not to obscene differences. Keep the differential reasonable.
    1. We in America do have private orginizations who do help plus we already do have goverment benifts like WIC for mothers with young children.

    2. No one likes to be forced to change or move on a lot of problems with existing lower wages may be resolved if more people decided to move.

    3. Oh, the European Status Stratus. The rich man in his Mansion and the beggar at his gate. . . . It is so good to have those sorts of dependable people around isn't it. Seriously, if she has an impact on the business significantly than she would be paid what she was worth which you would then think is a living wage.

    4. Who are you, the Government, or myself to determine what sort of salary a Doctor of Medicine is to get? And why compare that to one who is semi-skilled? The doctor spent nearly a decade after high (Secondary) school to get on the ground floor to become a doctor. And unlike the semi-skilled who could change jobs and with some effort become a skilled laborer. It would be somewhat different for the doctor to change careers given that if he stopped being a doctor over time much of what he would know be obsolete. Giving the socialization of health care he probably is not being paid what he is worth.

  7. #117
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Between Hollywood and Compton.
    Last Seen
    11-25-09 @ 12:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,497

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    "Subsequent research, based on the effects of 1990-91 and 1996-97 minimum wage increases, continues to confirm this estimate. A study of the 27 percent increase in 1990-91 by economists Donald Deere, Kevin Murphy and Finis Welch, published in the American Economic Review (May 1995), found that this action reduced employment for all teen-agers by 7.3 percent and for black teen-agers by 10 percent. A study of the 1996-97 increase by economists Richard Burkhauser, Couch and David Wittenburg found a decline in employment of 2 percent to 6 percent for each 10 percent increase in the minimum wage.

    In a study published by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, Kenneth Couch translated these conclusions into raw numbers.

    * At the low end of the range, at least 90,000 teen-age jobs were lost in 1996 and another 63,000 jobs were lost in 1997.
    * At the high end, job losses may have equaled 268,000 in 1996 and 189,000 in 1997.
    * Couch estimates that a $1 rise in the minimum wage will further reduce teen-age employment by at least 145,000 and possibly as many as 436,000 jobs.
    "

    Minimum Wage Teen-age Job*Killer - Brief Analysis #292
    That's better. But it's also not anything that wouldn't be expected in a heterogenous labor market in which oligopsonistic conditions are present, whereas Dickens et al.'s and Card and Krueger's research is simply a harsh slap in the face to the textbook model of the labor market.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You were saying? Government intervention is socialism, maybe not to your liking, but it is socialism just the same.
    That's completely wrong, and the basis for your further inaccurate comments. As mentioned, socialism is the collective ownership and management of the means of production. Government intervention is ironically a foe of socialism, since utilization of the welfare state, for example, is able to maintain macroeconomic stabilization and sustain the physical efficiency of the working class.

  8. #118
    Klattu Verata Nicto
    LaMidRighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-21-17 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    30,534

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    That's completely wrong, and the basis for your further inaccurate comments.
    I stand by it as overregulation of private business is assertion of defacto ownership, as the private business owner no longer has control of the decisions of acquisition, embursement, etc.
    As mentioned, socialism is the collective ownership and management of the means of production. Government intervention is ironically a foe of socialism, since utilization of the welfare state, for example, is able to maintain macroeconomic stabilization and sustain the physical efficiency of the working class.
    Huh? Government ownership is government control, the only way it can acquire private property is through intervention or cession of the people by altering the social contract, and finally, the working class has little to do with economics other than they trade their time and effort(labor) for contractual monetary exchange(salary). I don't know what kind of socialism you are talking about, but your theories aren't matching up to the reality of the definition.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #119
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Between Hollywood and Compton.
    Last Seen
    11-25-09 @ 12:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,497

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I stand by it as overregulation of private business is assertion of defacto ownership, as the private business owner no longer has control of the decisions of acquisition, embursement, etc.
    Except that that's a ridiculous exaggeration of general governmental policy. The primary purpose of business regulation is by no means day-to-day management; the constrictions of bounded rationality (and related imperfect information) prevent that. Even your reference to GM was simply inaccurate, since apart from the mere partial ownership involved, full management options were not utilized, GM does not even constitute the entirety of the auto industry, let alone the means of production, and even complete government ownership of the means of production is not a sufficient condition for socialism since consolidation of power within the control of a state is often purely antithetical to legitimate public ownership and management. This subject has absolutely nothing to do with socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Huh? Government ownership is government control, the only way it can acquire private property is through intervention or cession of the people by altering the social contract, and finally, the working class has little to do with economics other than they trade their time and effort(labor) for contractual monetary exchange(salary).
    This isn't even a response to my post, for one thing, and formal "ownership" is often rather distinct from direct management in the capitalist economy, for another.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't know what kind of socialism you are talking about, but your theories aren't matching up to the reality of the definition.
    I'm referring to the only valid definition: Socialism is the public ownership and management of the means of production. Your definition is based on the misapplication of the label to authoritarian state capitalism (bogus "socialism") and the mixed economy, which is typically a technique of anti-socialists unable to offer legitimate criticism.

  10. #120
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Seen
    02-03-11 @ 08:17 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    585

    Re: Higher Minimum Wage Coming Soon

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You're a ****ing liar. Read this and tell me what you think about what Hoover accomplished.

    Herbert Hoover's Depression by Murray N. Rothbard
    Oh yeah, Rothbard at LewRockwell! Now there's a source. LOL No way he would lie by omission or spin anything,Eh?

    How about you actually reading Hoover and learning what actual legislation he passed, or is that too hard for you to do and you need some academic shill who couldn't run a snow cone stand to tell you what to think about Hoover? I mean, you would actually have to read a book and then there would be no link n stuff.
    Last edited by Picaro; 07-12-09 at 01:53 AM.

Page 12 of 21 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •